Revo SPS settings

[jasam]

I cannt find topic with sps settings..

Can you share your settings here?  I noticed that some people from here, put dyno charts, where you can see around 10 bhp difference, when they put 949 and 969 settings. b9i6f9 brings around 10 bhp more (on revo stage 3 map, gti)

Strange thing is, car will pull timing -3 degrees at 949, how then we can put 969, and get more bhp , when there will be really high amount of timing pull? is that still safe thing to do?

[Dan_FR]

The settings to use depend on the car, some like timing more than others, it can depend on a lot of things! your car is timing limited on T4, others will take T6 with similar or marginally more correction. I'd still enrich the fuelling request though

Revo Stage 3 GTI means you should have an upgrade HPFP, so why you would run it on its leanest setting I do not know.

Car needs logging to set up and find best settings, if you don't know what you're doing then have your dealer set up the SPS, there is no simple 'best setting' for everyone which is probably why people don't share their settings.....

For example, I'm Revo stage 2+ and run WMI, I run Boost 9, Timing 9 and Fuel 6(or 7, can't remember). You couldn't run those settings on your car......

[jasam]

yes, you are right in all you said. I understand that completelly.  And one thing I dont understand:

I have revo stage 3 (with all supporting hardware from revo offical web + all recomended hadrware), and my settings are : b8 t5 f7 , I have maximum timing pull -3 degrees. My friend have same car, completely same mods (I know every engine is a bit different), he went to dyno, and on b8 t5 f7 he had 315 bhp, then he put 969, and he got ~ 12 bhp more.


So my point is.. even if we got ignition pull at lower settings (857), we have more power at higher settings (also more ignition timing pull). So, does that mean that ignition timing pull, is very convservative and preventive thing, and means that we still have more room till real knock ? 

Maybe , if parameters for timing pull, are EGT, IAT, and few others.. maybe thats just safe measure for knock prevention, and values there (like egt) arent neccesarry 100% true/they are calculated, and doesnt neccesarry means we are on border with knock (even with -6, -7 degrees of ignition pull)? 




ALL above is just my loud thoughts, and my opinion, which is maybe not true. I dont want anybody to put high sps settings because that

[Dan_FR]

You can not change the requested boost and requested lambda, at the same time as changing the timing request, and attribute the extra power to timing alone. Did you do any logging to actually determine how much timing you were actually running (not the request, or the CF, but the actual ignition timing)

For all you know the extra power came from the slightly leaner mixture or the increase in boost pressure. I would hazard a guess at saying the extra timing request made little to no difference, it just means the ECU will also pull back the extra few degrees you are requesting.

Bear in mind that the maximum limit the ECU will correct for is 12, so you do not want to be anywhere near this number. 3-6 is ample and will more than allow any advantages from cooler denser air on a nice cool day

[jasam]

Thats good reply. Yes, its not timing alone that made change, there are also other settings (sps fueling set at 9, and boost set at 9). I measured timing angle with vcds, and boost and lambda settings.

 Boost setting 8 is 1.55 bar. Boost setting 9 is 1.6 bar.  Lambda setting 6  is  0.8 (11.76:1), lambda 8 is 0.8 (12.05:1).


Maximum timing pull is 12, so if I see 6,7 degree timing pull, that means I am very close to danger zone where ecu cannt pull more?

So one dyno session cannt be problem? Because, even with 6 or 7 deg ignition pull, result will be more power... I ask because part of people, when see -3 deg timing pull, thinking that engine loosing power. That just mean that we are close to 12 deg which is maximum. Seeing even -6 deg pull, arent bad (it is, but nothing happens in engine, its just potentially danger because you can pass 12 deg, becaue hot  weather or bad fuel? correct me if I am wrong)

This is just example of two sps settings :



Its not good resolution, so 849 is 296 bhp,  969 is 308 bhp

[Dan_FR]

The calculated timing pull, or correction factor ,is based on the noises the knock sensor is picking up, so even at 3CF the knock sensor is picking up a resonant frequency that indicates that there is a small amount of knock. I the does not mean that anything up to 11 is ok, it means that the higher the number, the more severe the knock is.

Graph states first run is also B9 and the only change is timing? Which would suggest that at the rpm where peak power is measured, you were able to run more timing. Have you looked at the actual ignition advance at the peak hp as well as the CF?

[jasam]

yes I checked igntition timing at peak maf g/s, dont know exactly numbers now.

I thought igintion pull are calculated from egt, iat and some other stuff..  As EGT readings arent correct, after engine/map isnt standard.. and if EGT is one parameter for calculation timing pull, it was logically to me thinking that timing pull is just preventive measure before real knock occure. But if thats real knock as you said .. then timing pull is serious thing.

this is from revo sps manuals, and thats reason why I thought it was all calculated, not real knock.

[Dan_FR]

EGT calculation is surprisingly accurate until you change turbos

That extract explains it perfectly, the timing pull is based on the knock sensors sensing when approaching or having reached some pre-detonation. Obviously the factory knock calibration will be cautious and you will get some timing being pulled before actually getting in to knock

[jasam]

Ok, what that means, if I have k04 conversion, and see -3deg timing pull, is that mean that isnt real knock? Does all numbers in ignition pull doesnt show real knock?

Sorry, my english isnt perfect so I didnt get it

[Dan_FR]

What it means is, the ECU has either sensed that you are approaching knock, or are starting to get some knock, isn't happy with it and it is pulling back for safety.

It doesn't matter whether you actually get knock at this point, this is the pre-determined safety mapping within the ECU, and they will all pull back once the knock sensor detects thee harmonic frequencies. 

As far as I know Revo don't alter the factory parameters for knock sensing

[jasam]

I would like to know, if knock sensor senses something (in case lets say -3 degree pull) or its real knock. I doubt revo will reply on that question :/

[Dan_FR]

It's not Revo you would need to ask, its Bosch...

Its really irrelevant whether it is actual knock or not, as theres nothing you can do about it regardless

[jasam]

If its not real knock, I will put more timing, if it is real knock its not for play with that , that difference

[Dan_FR]

Follow the Revo guide for acceptable level of timing correction, they are quite clear on what is OK and what is not. Anything up to around 5 is ok as it still leave headroom to pull back if needed, but also to take advantage of cooler temperatures too

The point I think you are missing is that even if you add more timing request, if you were already seeing 3 degrees of correction before, you will simply be increasing this to 4-6 degrees of correction - this will not result in an increase in performance at that RPM... Only at load sites where you previously had no timing correction

If you look at the actual ignition timing, it will not advance

https://products.revotechnik.com/products/pdf/SelectPlus_AdvancedUserGuide_V0707.pdf

[jasam]

Will check that. Did you mean injector advance or timing advance?