At what power would you go 4WD?

[AJP]

Yes the MK6 R out of the box did everything, Required little input from the driver. Just put your foot down, Any gear almost any condition and it got on with it. As said though this just diluted the driving experience and made me feel numb and not excited, I can only imagine the MK7 R to be even more so and in DSG form I would probably fall asleep at the wheel.

I've had an S3 manual and found it really thirsty and only slightly faster than a bog standard K03 Gti, I was very disappointed with it, didn't keep for long!

I'm now on my 3rd Gti, had 2 K03 and now the K04 Pirelli, it has been mapped to Stg 1 and is great fun to drive.

I also have a Mk7 R, in comparison the R is far too safe and boring even though manual! The Pirelli is by far a much more fun car to drive and is certainly faster once you are up and moving, and a bl00dy sight cheaper to boot.......and I think it looks better too 
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I personally think the point of the mk7 R (to car nerds like us) is what they're like when you push them up to Stage 2 and beyond. I can imagine they do feel very safe and steady when you don't take things much further than oem levels of tune.

I went out in Hurdy's mk6 last summer and there's no way a 2WD car could produce the performance that thing could. Even with a built engine, LSD, sticky tyres, and basically everything you can throw at it, there's a clear line in the sand where a 2WD just can't cope.

But... it really depends what you're after. If you base it on how much fun a car is, then arguably a 2WD k03 2+ car can be just as much fun as a big turbo AWD car, just in very different ways. Just like DSG can tame things a bit on a modest k03 car, if you're into quarter miles and big power DSG is a godsend.

It doesn't take long to get used to a little k03 though!

[AJP]

Quotes are going spazzy here. Mine starts at "I personally..."

[baka]

A 2+ k03 quattro will be pretty quick but it wouldn't set my pants on fire. What sort of stuff are you used to driving?

I do love my GTI and it'll be a bit silly putting a k04 in, but I guess I'm kind of commited to that now. If I had the chance to do it again (knowing I'm a sucker for tuning) I'd hold out for AWD and k04. You've just got so much more headroom in more than one way in those cars. It's just budget really.

I used to ride bikes but had to stop about 6 years ago. About the only reasonably fast car I've had since was a 200SX S14 with 280hp. I also had a 220hp Volvo S40 T4 that felt even quicker, just because it tried to kill you everytime it spooled.

These days anything with 200+ hp keeps me happy. My current A4 B7 2.0tfsi is reasonably quick, if a bit of a boat.

The S3 is tempting, just because of it's potential to be genuinely rapid with a few choice bits. 

[Dan_FR]

If anyone is having issues sub 300hp (i.e. K03) then you either have a problem with your car, driving style or just have crap tyres

Get yourself a few handling mods and some Michelin PS4s and the car will be plenty capable... Helps if you don't treat the throttle as an on/off switch too!

Not a chance would I consider AWD at this power level - would turn the car from a fun family car 20-70mph (all I use it for) to something even heavier and boring.

[Sulley91]

If anyone is having issues sub 300hp (i.e. K03) then you either have a problem with your car, driving style or just have crap tyres

Get yourself a few handling mods and some Michelin PS4s and the car will be plenty capable... Helps if you don't treat the throttle as an on/off switch too!

Not a chance would I consider AWD at this power level - would turn the car from a fun family car 20-70mph (all I use it for) to something even heavier and boring.

Just reading the posts here and dan is right I have a mk5 gti with k04 conversion running 355bhp and I can literally put my foot down in 2nd rolling start and there is no drama what's so ever just goes to show what Michelin ps4's and and load of suspension mods can help
(S3 hubs and super pro wishbones and balljoints) I think people forget that k04's spool a little bit later then k03's my k03 used to make my tyres light up all the time now I've got decent tyres no more issues for me...

[FJ1000]

If anyone is having issues sub 300hp (i.e. K03) then you either have a problem with your car, driving style or just have crap tyres

Get yourself a few handling mods and some Michelin PS4s and the car will be plenty capable... Helps if you don't treat the throttle as an on/off switch too!

Not a chance would I consider AWD at this power level - would turn the car from a fun family car 20-70mph (all I use it for) to something even heavier and boring.

I'll acknowledge it comes down to driving style (and partly tyres) for me; I'm used to Quattro and so being able to use full throttle all the time. My main car is an RS4, before that the A4 Quattro I mentioned, and before that an S4...that covers about 8 years! I posted this vid in the conti SC5 thread, but I'll stick it down here too, 427bhp + Quattro + rainy Scottish roads not a problem:

Tyres on the golf are conti sportcontact 3s (on the wheels when I bought them, not my choice), and they're not very good.

So, I see where everyone is coming from.

However, given how tuneable the 2.0T is, if you're into modifying, how long is the car going to stay sub 300bhp? I'd want the capability to make big power and be able to use it.

So I guess it comes down to what the OP's intentions are (and apologies if I missed that on the thread)...if you're thinking to go down the route of TTE turbo upgrades etc, 4wd has got to be considered. If you think you'll be happy with <300bhp, then FWD and some good rubber is probably fine.


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[flashp]

I'm having no issues at 330bhp @ 350lb/ft.
I'm not into traffic light drag racing.

If I wanted more power I'd be looking at a Syvecs ECU and would stay FWD rather than convert. If felt I must have AWD then I'd buy a car already equipped with it.

I've ridden in JKM's Octavia at 530 bhp with a Syvecs ECU http://www.syvecs.co.uk/ and it's such an efficient solution it manages the traction and power with far more finesse than the OE system. Without exaggeration I would say it re-writes the rule book for FWD power delivery and I'd bet it's substantially cheaper than an AWD conversion. It would refine your car and also keep it visually OE.

Jim did explain to me in great depth the differences in management systems and to be honest I couldn't accurately repeat everything here. What I did learn though was the OE system is pitched at keeping the car within certain economy/emissions parameters which are definitely not performance related. The available sensors for managing power and torque delivery are limited in comparison to Syvecs system and all of it's available sensor input channels. Live map switching is also a bonus.

I see the benefit of AWD but it's not the only solution for big power these days. There's also no weight penalty with an ECU upgrade.

[pudding]

If anyone is having issues sub 300hp (i.e. K03) then you either have a problem with your car, driving style or just have crap tyres

Get yourself a few handling mods and some Michelin PS4s and the car will be plenty capable... Helps if you don't treat the throttle as an on/off switch too!

Not a chance would I consider AWD at this power level - would turn the car from a fun family car 20-70mph (all I use it for) to something even heavier and boring.

This.

It's why I didn't get on with my R32s.  The power and power delivery didn't justify 4WD.  Sure, giving it welly out of wet junctions with DSG was reassuringly easy and drama free, but other than that and straight line drag races, the Haldex was unnecessary baggage 90% of the time......and extra maintenance.

I like the drama of powerful FWD.  As you say, if you know how to modulate a throttle pedal, then insane wheel spin should never be an issue.

[FJ1000]

If felt I must have AWD then I'd buy a car already equipped with it.

...I would say it re-writes the rule book for FWD power delivery and I'd bet it's substantially cheaper than an AWD conversion.

Fair enough, but we're not talking about a conversion here though.

We're talking about making a choice between purchasing a FWD or AWD variant of the same car to begin with.

I had that choice when I bought my A4. It was pretty hard to find a quattro in the end, although FWD cars were plentiful. There were only 4 on sale in the UK within my budget at the time I was looking, and I ended up flying from London to Belfast to buy the one i got, but I still think it was the right decision. I wanted the security of AWD in the wet, and the option to go to big power if I wanted to, without having any traction issues. In the end, I didn't (as I changed car) but if I didn't buy the RS I might have been looking at a TTE turbo and 400bhp+....I know I'd prefer AWD then!

So I maintain that it comes down to your intentions with what you want to do with the car.

Sure you can cope with 300bhp+ in FWD, as many of you guys are proving, but the benefit of having drive to twice as many wheels can't be ignored.

As a side note, I only lost about £1.5k in depreciation over 3 years on that car, as the quattro version of the B8 A4 2.0T S-line was harder to find than the FWD ones, which seemed to have lost more value.

[Paradox1]

If I could turn back the clock I'd go 4wd all the way at any stage as it has better had long ihmo amd traction is awesome once mapped up to water stage to go. gti's are fun but once you start climbing the bhp up start spinning thr wheels all over the place including 3rd gear. That's my opinion. 

Your on a stock map!! what are you crying for? fit some decent tyres and stop whining :D

[AJP]

If anyone is having issues sub 300hp (i.e. K03) then you either have a problem with your car, driving style or just have crap tyres

Get yourself a few handling mods and some Michelin PS4s and the car will be plenty capable... Helps if you don't treat the throttle as an on/off switch too!

Not a chance would I consider AWD at this power level - would turn the car from a fun family car 20-70mph (all I use it for) to something even heavier and boring.

Therefore I have a heavy right foot! Like I mentioned, I'm on Super Sports, car was properly aligned 12 months ago.

There's a few factors at play:

Mine makes big torque at low revs, and the k03 spools quickly.

The only suspension upgrade I have is a set of H&R springs. Dampers, bushes etc are all 78k old as far as I know.

I often floor it when I should really be modulating the throttle before I get into third!

Often if I'm not totally straight before planting it in 3rd the traction control will kick in. I think I'd benefit an anti lift kit.

I wouldn't say I have problems, but there's only so much you can do with 345lb/ft going through the front.

[Dan_FR]

I too have K03 2+ along with WMI. Don't get me wrong I COULD induce wheelspin if I just planted my foot...car hits full boost well below 3k rpm.... but if you modulate the throttle to gain some forward momentum before going WOT it is a lot more likely to grip and go... In the dry I can go WOT from about 35-40mph and it will just grip and go (so long as I feed the throttle in and build up to WOT. Stamping the throttle just makes that little light flash on the dash with the car going nowhere)

Have you done any work on the car in the last 12 months? My Geo is massively out after something as simple as a CV boot change so it could be worth having it done again

[AJP]

I too have K03 2+ along with WMI. Don't get me wrong I COULD induce wheelspin if I just planted my foot...car hits full boost well below 3k rpm.... but if you modulate the throttle to gain some forward momentum before going WOT it is a lot more likely to grip and go... In the dry I can go WOT from about 35-40mph and it will just grip and go (so long as I feed the throttle in and build up to WOT. Stamping the throttle just makes that little light flash on the dash with the car going nowhere)

Have you done any work on the car in the last 12 months? My Geo is massively out after something as simple as a CV boot change so it could be worth having it done again

I haven't done anything since the geo last summer, but yeah it wouldn't hurt me to get it checked sometime soon. To be fair I'm pretty much running stock suspension except the springs, so I don't expect miracles.

I can go WOT in 3rd from 30/40 mph and it just boosts hard and takes off, like you say - every now and then (usually in colder weather) it'll break traction in third around peak torque.

It's only the first two gears that I've got to nurse if I want to make progress rather than drama. It's not a bad compromise considering the merits of the car. I'm probably going k04 at some point, so we'll see how it handles things with the torque spread across the revs rather than in a big slug at 3k.

By that time I hope to have some VWR dampers, an anti lift kit, maybe a stiffer rear roll bar, and a general refresh of bushes and mounts. Should be interesting.