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Author Topic: 118k Suspension refresh - Advice please  (Read 20333 times)

Offline Molesy

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118k Suspension refresh - Advice please
« on: August 04, 2017, 10:54:41 am »
Hi All,
I've been trawling the forums and internet for the last week and was wondering if you chaps can give me some advise on what to get. My car is about to hit 118k and for the last year the suspension has been feeling more and more tired. Its jiggly and wanders a bit on the motorway especially bad on a windy day. I've owned the car for 4 years and cannot see me selling her probably for another 4  :smiley:

So I've got the following list of parts I want to fit, I'm aiming for OEM+, I also need to keep the ride compliant as its my daily driver and a little baby to transport around. Also I'm trying to keep the costs down as much as I can.

VW Racingline Spring + Damper kit or ST Spring and Damper Kit (not sure what one to get)
Superpro or Whiteline ALK
I want to refresh some the bushes as well (top mounts etc) but not sure what to get or where to get it(heard RS3 ones are good).
Any other common suspension parts/consumables that are worth replacing at the same time.

Any advise would be greatly appreciated  :smiley:

Molesy  :happy2:

Offline flashp

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Re: 118k Suspension refresh - Advice please
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2017, 12:58:09 pm »
For daily duties and comfort I'd stay with original components and do a thorough job.  Drop links, track rod ends, every bush you can find that's tired and alignment by somebody who knows what they're doing :happy2:
You could otherwise make a change and convince yourself it's better because it's different.

In addition a WALK kit is a good shout.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 01:01:19 pm by flashp »

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Offline Ripstop

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Re: 118k Suspension refresh - Advice please
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2017, 01:18:04 pm »
Funny you should ask.... I am booked in next week at AKS for some Bilstein B4's which are regarded as OEM replacements. My Eddy has done 105k miles and I have a terrible knocking on the drivers side front strut which I am sure is a top mount jobby. I am hoping that the B4's and some TTRS top mounts will sort that.

I already have a slight lowering of 20mm with some H&R springs but couldn't justify a mega spend and definitely didn't want any harder ride. I already find the ride a little harsh at low speeds but fine if you push on. I will *never* track-day it (famous last words) but wanted to give the suspension a new lease of life and some longevity as I aim to keep the car for a while. I will then work my way through the bushes, track rod ends and other rubber bits as time and money permit.

Rip.
Stage 1 2007 Black Eddy  #1000 - VCDS Hex+Can (Novice coder). H&R springs, newish Bilstein B4's. Gen 3 Steering rack, Helix organic.  The car is *always* work in progress fixing and upgrading things.

Offline Molesy

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Re: 118k Suspension refresh - Advice please
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2017, 01:39:44 pm »
For daily duties and comfort I'd stay with original components and do a thorough job.  Drop links, track rod ends, every bush you can find that's tired and alignment by somebody who knows what they're doing :happy2:
You could otherwise make a change and convince yourself it's better because it's different.

In addition a WALK kit is a good shout.

Cheers flashp, I don't really want to keep standard, I do want some upgrade otherwise I'll forever be thinking what if and I'm sure a slightly harder ride will be fine  :happy2:  From what I read the VW Racingline kit gives a better ride, the ST kit is hard to find information on but does come with KW dampers - so hard to decide! Any ideas or experience with them?

Offline Molesy

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Re: 118k Suspension refresh - Advice please
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2017, 01:42:22 pm »
Funny you should ask.... I am booked in next week at AKS for some Bilstein B4's which are regarded as OEM replacements. My Eddy has done 105k miles and I have a terrible knocking on the drivers side front strut which I am sure is a top mount jobby. I am hoping that the B4's and some TTRS top mounts will sort that.

I already have a slight lowering of 20mm with some H&R springs but couldn't justify a mega spend and definitely didn't want any harder ride. I already find the ride a little harsh at low speeds but fine if you push on. I will *never* track-day it (famous last words) but wanted to give the suspension a new lease of life and some longevity as I aim to keep the car for a while. I will then work my way through the bushes, track rod ends and other rubber bits as time and money permit.

Rip.

Cheers Ripstop - I was considering the B4's with maybe the VWR springs or Eibach Pro Springs - are they considered as good as the OEM ones? Also where did you get the TTRS top mount and bearing?

Molesy  :happy2:

Offline pudding

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Re: 118k Suspension refresh - Advice please
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2017, 02:08:50 pm »
VWR spring+damper kit all day long - I can't think of anything better for compliant daily duties and sportiness when the mood takes you, and it's only £516 ish from Awesome, so really cheap.   It rides way better than the stock, corners flatter than stock and wallows less than stock on undulating B roads.

I wouldn't recommend the kit for track days as it's too soft, but VWR have their own range or rebadged KW coilovers for track work.

Wandering is probably lorry ruts or perhaps worn console bushes.

I can also heartily recommend the Vibratechnics engine mounts (aka 'Vibrator Techniques') as part of the handling improvement package.  The increase in NVH won't be for everybody (it's not that bad tbh) but they make a big difference to the gear shift (if manual) and cornering stability. 



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Offline Molesy

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Re: 118k Suspension refresh - Advice please
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2017, 07:15:46 pm »
VWR spring+damper kit all day long - I can't think of anything better for compliant daily duties and sportiness when the mood takes you, and it's only £516 ish from Awesome, so really cheap.   It rides way better than the stock, corners flatter than stock and wallows less than stock on undulating B roads.

I wouldn't recommend the kit for track days as it's too soft, but VWR have their own range or rebadged KW coilovers for track work.

Wandering is probably lorry ruts or perhaps worn console bushes.

I can also heartily recommend the Vibratechnics engine mounts (aka 'Vibrator Techniques') as part of the handling improvement package.  The increase in NVH won't be for everybody (it's not that bad tbh) but they make a big difference to the gear shift (if manual) and cornering stability.
Well thats a great endorsement Pudding so looks like the VWR kit it is! I've had a look around at some ALK and bushes which I'll post later to double check they are good, I noticed Awesome had a VWR kit that looked like a ALK with the inner/console bushes with it - is it any good? or am i better to get the Superpro ones?

Think I'll pass on the engine mounts for now or its gonna get even more expensive than it already is!

Also about the top mounts etc for the suspension whats best? and where can i get them?

Thanks again!!  :smiley:

Molesy  :happy2:
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 07:17:21 pm by Molesy »

Offline AJP

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Re: 118k Suspension refresh - Advice please
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2017, 08:46:07 pm »
VWR spring+damper kit all day long - I can't think of anything better for compliant daily duties and sportiness when the mood takes you, and it's only £516 ish from Awesome, so really cheap.   It rides way better than the stock, corners flatter than stock and wallows less than stock on undulating B roads.

I wouldn't recommend the kit for track days as it's too soft, but VWR have their own range or rebadged KW coilovers for track work.

Wandering is probably lorry ruts or perhaps worn console bushes.

I can also heartily recommend the Vibratechnics engine mounts (aka 'Vibrator Techniques') as part of the handling improvement package.  The increase in NVH won't be for everybody (it's not that bad tbh) but they make a big difference to the gear shift (if manual) and cornering stability.
Well thats a great endorsement Pudding so looks like the VWR kit it is! I've had a look around at some ALK and bushes which I'll post later to double check they are good, I noticed Awesome had a VWR kit that looked like a ALK with the inner/console bushes with it - is it any good? or am i better to get the Superpro ones?

Think I'll pass on the engine mounts for now or its gonna get even more expensive than it already is!

Also about the top mounts etc for the suspension whats best? and where can i get them?

Thanks again!!  :smiley:

Molesy  :happy2:
You'll be fine with standard OEM mounts from the dealer. You can apparently fit TTRS/RS3 mounts (which I'd imagine are a bit stiffer) but for the purpose of a daily that rides well and doesn't get tracked, I'd stick with standard.

I'll dig the part numbers out for you in a sec..

ETA:

Bearing 1K0412249B
Mount 1K0412331B
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 09:16:10 pm by AJP »

Offline Ripstop

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Re: 118k Suspension refresh - Advice please
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2017, 08:19:12 am »
VWR spring+damper kit all day long - I can't think of anything better for compliant daily duties and sportiness when the mood takes you, and it's only £516 ish from Awesome, so really cheap.   It rides way better than the stock, corners flatter than stock and wallows less than stock on undulating B roads.

I wouldn't recommend the kit for track days as it's too soft, but VWR have their own range or rebadged KW coilovers for track work.

Wandering is probably lorry ruts or perhaps worn console bushes.

I can also heartily recommend the Vibratechnics engine mounts (aka 'Vibrator Techniques') as part of the handling improvement package.  The increase in NVH won't be for everybody (it's not that bad tbh) but they make a big difference to the gear shift (if manual) and cornering stability.
Well thats a great endorsement Pudding so looks like the VWR kit it is! I've had a look around at some ALK and bushes which I'll post later to double check they are good, I noticed Awesome had a VWR kit that looked like a ALK with the inner/console bushes with it - is it any good? or am i better to get the Superpro ones?

Think I'll pass on the engine mounts for now or its gonna get even more expensive than it already is!

Also about the top mounts etc for the suspension whats best? and where can i get them?

Thanks again!!  :smiley:

Molesy  :happy2:
You'll be fine with standard OEM mounts from the dealer. You can apparently fit TTRS/RS3 mounts (which I'd imagine are a bit stiffer) but for the purpose of a daily that rides well and doesn't get tracked, I'd stick with standard.

I'll dig the part numbers out for you in a sec..

ETA:

Bearing 1K0412249B
Mount 1K0412331B
The TTRS (VW genuine) top mounts apparently have a 20% stiffer rubber and I am taking Alex's recommendation here. Yes the B4's are regarded as the direct OEM replacement. To be honest its more about trying to match the damper and spring rate to get that planted on rails feeling without the annoying harshness. Puddings endorsement is hard to ignore and in the end I may need to revisit this in future as I am a suspension softy these days  :smiley:
Stage 1 2007 Black Eddy  #1000 - VCDS Hex+Can (Novice coder). H&R springs, newish Bilstein B4's. Gen 3 Steering rack, Helix organic.  The car is *always* work in progress fixing and upgrading things.

Offline pudding

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Re: 118k Suspension refresh - Advice please
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2017, 08:57:35 pm »
SuperPro are great. +1 degree caster.  Or Whiteline for +0.5 deg caster.  Both work well but the Superpros probably last longer as the 'bearing' part of it is stainless steel.  Whiteline's is poly on poly, which isn't brilliant for lifespan but works OK.  Caster for those unfamiliar gives better turn-in and increases dynamic camber.  Also improves straight line stability and reduces wheel hop.  The more the better - but at the expense of steering feel and weight.  Stock caster is ~7.5 degrees for reference.

Top mounts - I'd go with TTRS, or if you're feeling flush, Ground control.  The less squidge you have up top, the better the components down below work  :happy2:

The Ground controls like a lot of other uber money MK5 tuning kit is a leap of faith thing.  Hard to justify on paper but when all's said and done, brutally effective.  What was it Rolls Royce used to say, "Quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten".

The VWR kit works great.  Done about 1500 miles on it now and little to complain about, perhaps a little soft for me past 7/10ths as already mentioned. I am a bit of a hooligan in the corners though. The damping feels spot on matched to the springs, but progressive springs can be a little unpredictable in the corners at times, but fantastic for ride quality.  OEM springs are linear, and with the aggressive OEM damper valving, it all feels a bit wooden and lumpy.  With the VWR complaints, I am talking really pushing the car hard, way harder than you would on 90% of your regular journeys  :happy2:

The most important thing is it instills confidence.  Many a time I've driven in cars with expensive, super hard suspension and not felt confident to explore the limits because it's so frickin crashy, hard and bouncy.  Yes Bilstein PSS, I'm talking about you!!






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Offline colesey

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Re: 118k Suspension refresh - Advice please
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2017, 09:18:05 pm »
Like Pudding, I have been running the VWR spring / damper combo for a year and would agree that they are well judged for most daily driving but can become a bit soft when pushing on. I recently added a pair of H&R arbs (smaller 26/22 mm) and found them to tighten up the car nicely whilst still maintaining decent compliance for bumpy roads. I also had the superpro arms / ball joints fitted at the same time, together with some racier geo settings. Whilst suspension doesn't sound as sexy as bhp, you do get to appreciate it all the time you drive irrespective of road speed.

Offline pudding

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Re: 118k Suspension refresh - Advice please
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2017, 09:34:26 am »
I want the Superpro ball joints for mine too, but they can't be used on the S3/Passat hubs for some reason!


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Offline reflexsilverfox

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Re: 118k Suspension refresh - Advice please
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2017, 12:49:36 pm »
I went for the 20mm ST kit and have done TT console bushes with all new top mounts and new track rod ends with inners tie rods too, also changed the rear arms and the 2 bushes that go with them, that lot made a big difference.

some info here: http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,112302.msg1086796.html#msg1086796 

Offline Shoduchi

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Re: 118k Suspension refresh - Advice please
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2017, 01:40:26 pm »
I want the Superpro ball joints for mine too, but they can't be used on the S3/Passat hubs for some reason!

Those ball joints are a bit bigger than the S3/Passat ball joints. I guess the hub hits the SuperPro ball joint when turning the wheels. :confused:

PS: Just saw on Facebook Alex Kerr saying that they fit fine. :happy2:

Offline pudding

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Re: 118k Suspension refresh - Advice please
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2017, 02:00:23 pm »
I want the Superpro ball joints for mine too, but they can't be used on the S3/Passat hubs for some reason!

Those ball joints are a bit bigger than the S3/Passat ball joints. I guess the hub hits the SuperPro ball joint when turning the wheels. :confused:

PS: Just saw on Facebook Alex Kerr saying that they fit fine. :happy2:

Yeah that was me asking the question  :happy2:  Gonna order some!





2007 ED30 | 2009 TDI 140 | 2016 BMW 330D