VW Racing Big Brake kit product review

[MAT ED30]

What seals have you guys got on the pistons as I know the ones on my calipers are off a race car ie the jetta that ronnie o Sullivan was driving and I remember Simon and matt both saying the the piston seals are not the same on the road versions but I could be talking crap  it's just something that might be a reason so maybe the pistons don't go back quick enough on the track with other seals in  just an idea maybe

[chungster]

Is this something that is related to the 6 pot kits only or do the 4 pot kuts suffer as well

Have they released a 4 pot kit now?

[SteveP]

Like I said it all depends how you drive the car to how quick the pads go down. How many miles has the apr car got on it with those brakes on? And that will be all road driving and it will be ragged everywhere so may give you some clue

I can't see how driving style will make any difference to the wear pattern, to me it would only affect the wear rate.

Here's the state of mine: -

Near Side Caliper





Offside Caliper








Also worth noting these pads where flipped around about 700 miles ago to help balance out the wear but still there is a significant difference. Also the offside pads where crumbling too  

[chungster]

I suppose if the car does way more track work vs normal road driving then I can see the big piston wearing out the pad faster than the side with the smaller piston.

But if the big piston is deployed first then IMO that's the problem really. Surely that means the braking isn't progressive at all?

[Janner_Sy]

Is this something that is related to the 6 pot kits only or do the 4 pot kuts suffer as well

Have they released a 4 pot kit now?

Getting a VWR 330mm 4 pot kit on mine pending details about this wear issue

[Janner_Sy]

Like I said it all depends how you drive the car to how quick the pads go down. How many miles has the apr car got on it with those brakes on? And that will be all road driving and it will be ragged everywhere so may give you some clue

I can't see how driving style will make any difference to the wear pattern, to me it would only affect the wear rate.Also worth noting these pads where flipped around about 700 miles ago to help balance out the wear but still there is a significant difference. Also the offside pads where crumbling too  

Which pads steve.  Were they new, how many miles/tracksays etc

Have you raised this with vwr

[SteveP]

DS2500's, not sure exactly how many miles / track days as these are NeilM's old pads as previously mentioned. As QD will confirm mine where far worse when they failed at Spa.

Going to follow it up this week as when I mentioned it to VWR last year they claimed to have never heard of the issue.

[QD MBE]

Unless I have my physics totally to cock, and unless there is some artificial means of increasing surface area on the small piston, by clever machining.  Or a means of slowing large piston deployment by use of multiple seals, or a pressure reducer - then the large  Piston will always deploy first.  Pressure acting on a greater piston surface area.

I am sure Dave B will be along to comment.

[QD MBE]

DS2500's, not sure exactly how many miles / track days as these are NeilM's old pads as previously mentioned. As QD will confirm mine where far worse when they failed at Spa.

Going to follow it up this week as when I mentioned it to VWR last year they claimed to have never heard of the issue.

For the amount of miles, the pads were shocking.  Down to the metal on one end, with circa 3-5mm on the other.  NeilM's were the same, but the pads were slightly newer, but had signs that they were on the same wear regime.

[MAT ED30]

Maybe are better compound pad for track abuse as it looks like the heat has just melted them and they have crumbled but it also looks like your pistons have not been deployed correctly or retracting correctly 

[QD MBE]

Taken from the Wilwood site.

Caliper Selection and Mounting
Most Wilwood extreme performance calipers are one directional because of the differential piston bore design (one end of the caliper having larger pistons than the other); the caliper must be mounted in a specific position relative to the rotor rotation. All Wilwood Ordering Information calipers are marked with a rotor rotation arrow on them. The caliper should be mounted so that the smaller piston end is closest to the rotor entrance, and the larger piston end toward the rotor exit. The larger piston end provides slightly greater clamping force to compensate for pad taper that can occur under extended severe use applications. An improperly mounted caliper (reverse rotation) will cause increased pad taper and reduce overall braking efficiency.

Note that differential piston bore calipers cannot be used interchangeably from side to side - there is a left hand caliper and a right hand caliper. Also, calipers differ depending on whether the mounting is behind or in front of the spindle - this affects bleed screw position. Make sure to properly analyze these criteria when ordering and mounting or replacing Ordering Information calipers.

[DaveB@Vagbremtechnic]

Will you guys just put your pads out of their misery and reverse the calipers.....

[TEUTONIC_TAMER MODE/ON

This is total bunkum, small piston first ALWAYS. Despite the fan boys people need to listen to BASIC SOUND BRAKING PRINCIPLES

can-am, LMP, Formula1, Porsche road cars, Porsche GT Track Cars, Mercedes, Tarox, wildwood, AP Racing, Brembo, EVERYBODY puts the small piston first for that very reason.

PS I'll beat any price for rotors and pads for this kit, I don't need to charge much cos you'll be coming to me twice as often.

People that know, know this kit is a high margin replacement for the project Mu stuff which was hands down better quality than this stuff, all Project Mu stuff has double duty because it has to originate out of Japan and Australia.

The rotors have ZERO float, they are simply bolted, the calipers are two piece so prone to flex, and all this hype about piston sizes is a load of crap , the surface area will work our at around 49-52 sq cm, they might tune the caliper with a smaller small piston for better bite but what's the point when they turn it upside down?

If they're having to turn it upside down to get it to work the piston sizes are WRONG.

It's like disabling first gear setting off in second and complaining about clutch wear - ON PURPOSE

and can somebody please tell me the make of the rotor? I've been asking for ages ......nobody seems to want to tell me or admit its a no name rotor.

[TEUTONIC_TAMER MODE/OFF

To say these brakes are bad would be incorrect, value for money wise people can do much better

[QD MBE]

Will you guys just out your pads out of their misery and reverse the calipers.....

This is total bunkum, small piston first ALWAYS. Despite the fan boys people need to listen to BASIC SOUND BRAKING PRINCIPLES

can-am, LMP, Formula1, Porsche road cars, Porsche GT Track Cars, Mercedes, Tarox, wildwood, AP Racing, Brembo, EVERYBODY puts the small piston first for that very reason.

PS I'll beat any price for rotors and pads for this kit, I don't need to charge much cos you'll be coming to me twice as often.

People that know, know this kit is a high margin replacement for the project Mu stuff which was hands down better quality than this stuff, all Project Mu stuff has double duty because it has to originate out of Japan and Australia.

The rotors have ZERO float, they are simply bolted, the calipers are two piece so prone to flex, and all this hype about piston sizes is a load of crap , the surface area will work our at around 49-52 sq cm, they might tune the caliper with a smaller small piston for better bite but what's the point when they turn it upside down?

If they're having to turn it upside down to get it to work the piston sizes are WRONG.

It's like disabling first gear setting off in second and complaining about clutch wear - ON PURPOSE

and can somebody please tell me the make of the rotor? I've been asking for ages ......nobody seems to want to tell me or admit its a no name rotor.

To say these brakes are bad would be incorrect, value for money wise people can do much better

Small piston first as as the disc rotates?

[rich83]

Yes... thats why the NQSBBK needs the pipes rotating as the calipers originally are designed to fit to the back on the hub on the porker not the front as on the MK5.

Im sure Prof. Friction will correct me if i'm wrong.

[Janner_Sy]

 

I might have to put this one on hold for a minute then!!  Good to know about the option of cheaper consumables from you dave

The rotors have ZERO float, they are simply bolted, the calipers are two piece so prone to flex, and all this hype about piston sizes is a load of crap , the surface area will work our at around 49-52 sq cm, they might tune the caliper with a smaller small piston for better bite but what's the point when they turn it upside down?

If they're having to turn it upside down to get it to work the piston sizes are WRONG.

Why would reversing the calipers provide no stopping power?  Surely outright stopping power would be similar to identical, but with the small piston deploying first you would maybe have a more progressive setup that doesn't eat pads?

Ref the fixed/bolted rotors vs floating, whats the real world difference between them bearing in mind im not a racing driver.  Also do they not use the same bolted discs for the race cars?

DS2500's, not sure exactly how many miles / track days as these are NeilM's old pads as previously mentioned. As QD will confirm mine where far worse when they failed at Spa.

Going to follow it up this week as when I mentioned it to VWR last year they claimed to have never heard of the issue.

Could using DS2500s not being making a small issue a much larger issue.  DS2500s are only a fast road/light track pad.  For what you and neilM ar suing them on caged very powerful trackcars running semi slick and even slick tyres etc.  You would be able to get you would be able to get your brakes running huge temperatures compared to what i could manage on my little Fabia.