Experience of APR Maps

[KRL]

^^^
Process of elimination is a good idea.  To rule out this being a SW issue have you considered trying talking to APR and asking them if they would be willing to give you a free Stage 2+ trial?  I think it could be worth a shot and would give confidence to whether this is a SW issue or not.

[Janner_Sy]

i think that would be a great idea TBH. JKM do both APR and REVO so could flash your car back if it doesnt work

[vRS Carl]

Thanks for the advice Tony

Just a couple of things.

Firstly Keith at JKM (who is a bit of a Guru on the 2.0TFSi) has spent hours going over logs i have sent him.

He also has logs from when the car was on the Dyno.

When i first left JKM after the install the Car was set at Boost 8 Timing 7 Fuel 7. After about a month of logs going back & forth to Keith and me changing various parts, we got the Car running as he would expect a Stage 2+ K03 car on Settings Boost 9 Timing 4 Fuel 8. The logs were basically the same as 5 other Stage 2+ cars (which were all using the original version of the code). There was no timing pull whatsoever. But the car would not reproduce the road logs on the Dyno. Basically between 2000-3000 rpm the AFR rate was all over the place before settling to a flat line as it should. Keith said if we could get the car to produce on the Dyno what it does on the road i would have 'normal' stage 2+ Dyno print out

Kev Hall at REVO also looked at them and over the period of a couple of weeks got me to do various logging runs at various settings and logging specific blocks. This led to me being put on the settings i am now which is Boost 9 Timing 7 Fuel 6.

The problem is that on the Dyno the car will NEVER request maximum boost. IIRC the most it would request was 2350mbar and only very briefly. However put the car on the road it will request Max and more often than give more than the requested boost (requests 2550mbar and often gives 2560-2580mbar)

Over a period of 3 months the car was logged in numerous ways. Both before and after every piece of hardware was changed. It also went back on the RR twice hoping the problem had been fixed. It hadn't

The car doesn't do it's weird stuff at any particular time and i tried to replicate it numerous times but it wont. The actual road logs show the car is running fine max timing pull is -3 on a single cylinder and not for very long (read a couple of hundred RPM)

The fuel trims are fine etc. Nothing from the logs would indicate a problem. Which as you say without a specific fault code it's going to be hard to diagnose. This i why i replaced everything that could possibly be replaced in an attempt to locate the problem. Starting with the cheapest to the most expensive.

Maybe my last post was a bit misleading as more often than not the car performs as i would expect. It's not as dramatic as i had been told but i can get comparable in gear times as other Stage 2+ cars.

I would be more inclined to believe it was a hardware problem if it was just my car. But three cars with the same problem at the same point in the rev range is in my opinion too much of a coincidence.

As i said in an Earlier post i am not slagging REVO off. I think they have a very good product. BUT it is not Flawless as they seem to think and (apart from Kev Hall) my experience of there customer service is very very poor. If this turns out to be a hardware problem then i will publicly apologise to REVO.

Carl

[vRS Carl]

have you considered trying talking to APR and asking them if they would be willing to give you a free Stage 2+ trial?  I think it could be worth a shot and would give confidence to whether this is a SW issue or not.

I have done mate but kinda of forgotten about it as i wanted to get the problem sorted. More so just because it would always always bug me.

But as i am getting to the end of my tether with it now i think i may just try that.

Carl

[tony_danza]

Yeah, by the sounds of it because there's a link between the cars you have common problem.

My thoughts are your cars all have a common piece of hardware that is either wrong from the factory or is a slight variation on the norm, so it is performing differently for whatever reason. Code that works fine on car A and doesn't on car B only does so because there is something different between the two.

So it either needs routing out and replacing if it is the wrong part, or the code needs tweaking to factor for it being different. Fair enough from my point of view if they didn't know a different part existed or was wrong, how could they tell? - but you can't excuse refusal to accept that possibility or poor relations with your customers. I hope whoever you work with from now on improves on that.

Your problem is obviously finding that bit. I still can't help leaning towards that fuel pressure sensor, I've heard of a few cases now of wrong ones. Mine had a VW recall, a few others have found them by chance with no word from VAG - so they clearly haven't a clue which batches were problematic. After that, I'm out of ideas but will ask some people I know to see if they've seen anything like it? I do know a master tech too, so its possible I can get a VW insight.

If it helps, a symptom of mine with the incorrect sensor was on kickdown/dropping gears - it'd get confused at the request for so much power, freeze for a few seconds and then dump a load of power in a scatty way. I thought it was the DSG doing it, it just so happened to go away when they did the recall swap, so can only conclude it was that.

[vRS Carl]

Cheers Tony.

Just a point though my car is a Skoda vRS but hopefully the pressure sensor will be the same part.

How much are they by the way and could i replace it myself?

Carl

[tony_danza]

^^ Edited my post above to include a symptom. It was also intermittant.

The sensor will be the same, I'm 99% sure. Price and fitting I haven't a clue - all I know was it was recall notice 24m5, so maybe somone could look the details up on that and find it??

[Janner_Sy]

if its the low pressure fuel sender it will be a pain in the ass but do-able yourself carl.   mine got replaced under warrantee when it went tits up requesting crazy fuel pressures or lack of at times, causing limp mode alot. 

I had a mobile RAC VAG technician fit it at my work address, however he said he would never ever do it outside of a grage again, as everything from throttle body pipes, alternator, and lots lots more had to come out to get access to it as it sits right below the bottom left of the inlet manifold. he was doing it for a few hours.

[Msportman]

I've had APR software on all of my recent cars which finished on their Stage 2 with APR HPFP and RSC exhaust.

As others have said including Pabs and Tony I would definately concur with their thought's as the issue is more thna likely to be a hardware issue. The TFSI can be a funny beast and various problems and issues have been found out over the years when trying to extract optimum performance.
Revo I'm sure have pretty well perfected their style of code and APR have recently revised their code. I found that the APR delivery was very OE and smooth but they are quite aggressive initially which is when typically seen on APR and GIAC software. Some of this can be put down to conditions on the day or the RR used. Their V2 software has smoothed out some of this as John_O can confirm.

I sold my Edition 30 which was stunning but needed more and more investment to make perfect such as big brakes, a diff and clutch and a larger FMIC.....there goes another £4-5k...oouch!! I had the car a year but it had to go with mortgage, kids and other financial pressures I was getting fed up lashing out thousands but I was pleased with APR 's product but in reality I don't think there are huge differences between APR and Revo except the map switching.

I'm now driving a E46 BMW which has a lovely chassis and engine and is filing the gap until what I really want which is an RS4 or 996 C2 .

[MAT ED30]

I've had APR software on all of my recent cars which finished on their Stage 2 with APR HPFP and RSC exhaust.

As others have said including Pabs and Tony I would definately concur with their thought's as the issue is more thna likely to be a hardware issue. The TFSI can be a funny beast and various problems and issues have been found out over the years when trying to extract optimum performance.
Revo I'm sure have pretty well perfected their style of code and APR have recently revised their code. I found that the APR delivery was very OE and smooth but they are quite aggressive initially which is when typically seen on APR and GIAC software. Some of this can be put down to conditions on the day or the RR used. Their V2 software has smoothed out some of this as John_O can confirm.

I sold my Edition 30 which was stunning but needed more and more investment to make perfect such as big brakes, a diff and clutch and a larger FMIC.....there goes another £4-5k...oouch!! I had the car a year but it had to go with mortgage, kids and other financial pressures I was getting fed up lashing out thousands but I was pleased with APR 's product but in reality I don't think there are huge differences between APR and Revo except the map switching.

I'm now driving a E46 BMW which has a lovely chassis and engine and is filing the gap until what I really want which is an RS4 or 996 C2 .

your old car is having al of that done lol

[Msportman]

I've had APR software on all of my recent cars which finished on their Stage 2 with APR HPFP and RSC exhaust.

As others have said including Pabs and Tony I would definately concur with their thought's as the issue is more thna likely to be a hardware issue. The TFSI can be a funny beast and various problems and issues have been found out over the years when trying to extract optimum performance.
Revo I'm sure have pretty well perfected their style of code and APR have recently revised their code. I found that the APR delivery was very OE and smooth but they are quite aggressive initially which is when typically seen on APR and GIAC software. Some of this can be put down to conditions on the day or the RR used. Their V2 software has smoothed out some of this as John_O can confirm.

I sold my Edition 30 which was stunning but needed more and more investment to make perfect such as big brakes, a diff and clutch and a larger FMIC.....there goes another £4-5k...oouch!! I had the car a year but it had to go with mortgage, kids and other financial pressures I was getting fed up lashing out thousands but I was pleased with APR 's product but in reality I don't think there are huge differences between APR and Revo except the map switching.

I'm now driving a E46 BMW which has a lovely chassis and engine and is filing the gap until what I really want which is an RS4 or 996 C2 .

your old car is having al of that done lol

I know...at VWR...all the jobs I would have done if I'd kept it. Other priorities in life I'm afraid take precedence over cars

Still it was a good experience and it was good to know what it was capable of but sadly my good old 200bhp MK2 16v was still lapping 2 secs a lap quicker at Combe so another 5k was vital to make the car super quick on track and it was too nice to rag it regularly on track.

[micky 32]

Carl, now this is a disclaimer as i'm not responsible for you spending the cash as i could be wrong  but i would definately be suspecting a fuel sensor problem. I believe that when they act up they don't show a fault code either..

[poko]

haven't really read all the thread.

but two things.

from reading the driving impressions , where one time the power is there and gone the other. that really sounds like LIMP Mode.
you have to take into consideration that all tuning companies play with the Limp mode and it is not as extreme "power off" as in stock.

you might want to do a check on lambada and EGT going on full throttle from 2nd to 6th since logs on a dyno vary a lot from logs on the road as heat builds up.

as for who's tune to go for . i hope to start my build thread next week.
i can just tell you one thing . when you will see the numbers my car made (Cupra) on APR stage1 , tested on a Dynapack dyno you will be truly amazed :)