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Author Topic: Very budget track build  (Read 72464 times)

Offline pudding

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Re: Very budget track build
« Reply #225 on: June 16, 2023, 08:46:14 pm »
Some interesting reading there!  I remember AmD very well from back in the day (90s, early 2000s), when it was Geoff Everett (who sadly passed away) and a couple of other guys. They were the VAG engine mapping & tuning pioneers, and also race car setup  :happy2:  They are not to be confused with the current 'AmD Essex' or 'AmD Tuning' who are nothing like what AmD used to be. I'm not sure how many times they've changed hands, but in the 2010 era, they weren't particularly good.

Aero plays a massive part. Ever noticed how MK5s feel a bit sketchy and vague well past 100? Lowering and stiffening helps, and also removing the stock rake, but they're just not that great aerodynamically. Too much underbody lift. Maybe underbody some aero parts from the A3 might help? All those plastic winglet things on the wishbones and full underbelly covers front and rear.  The front end air flow is a big factor also as you say, hence why the race cars angle the radiator stack at 45 degrees or more and airflow passthrough the bonnet instead of allowing it flow through into the engine bay, which is massive drag  :happy2:

All those wings, splitters and louvred wings we laugh at on road cars, yeah, those things really help on race/track cars  :happy2:  Have you seen that crazy MK2 16v Turbo on Misha Charoudin's YouTube channel? That thing was covered in DIY bodgey looking aero, but it was fast as fook round the ring because of it!

Powder coating looks great.  Yeah the HPFP followers don't wear out if you keep on top of oil the maintenance, and it's generally only those stupidly stiff HPFPs from Loba and APR that chew though followers. That's why I liked the VIS internals as it uses the stock spring  :happy2:

What I would also say is focus on yourself as a driver as well as preparing the car.  You probably won't remember Maurice Reeves. He was famous for blasting round Castle Coombe in his pretty simple MK2 track car, which beat dozens of much more powerful and sophisticated cars. It was purely down to driver skill and the right mods  :happy2:







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Offline GVK

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Re: Very budget track build
« Reply #226 on: June 16, 2023, 10:43:34 pm »
"All those wings, splitters and louvred wings we laugh at on road cars, yeah, those things really help on race/track cars  :happy2:  Have you seen that crazy MK2 16v Turbo on Misha Charoudin's YouTube channel? That thing was covered in DIY bodgey looking aero, but it was fast as fook round the ring because of it!"

The mk2 on You tube with the aero is owned by a mate of mine Nigel Pinder, really nice guy would help anyone.

He can lap the 'ring at Porsche GT3 pace low 7.3x mins. Thats quick in anyones book.

www.youtube.com  search pinderwagen

https://pinderwagen.com/




« Last Edit: June 16, 2023, 11:37:04 pm by GVK »

Offline Marticus

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Re: Very budget track build
« Reply #227 on: June 17, 2023, 01:56:32 pm »
I was watching misha’s vids about that golf recently, its an inspirational car for sure, and goes like anything.

I would love to see the reactions of the supercar owners as they get passed by a 30 year old golf, this kind of build is far more interesting to me that the porsche stuff hes been putting out recently.

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Re: Very budget track build
« Reply #228 on: June 17, 2023, 09:33:15 pm »
It's quick for sure , think it's pushing about 500hp these days.

I went round Cadwell Park as a passenger a few years back and it was amazing.

Offline Clarkj93

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Re: Very budget track build
« Reply #229 on: June 20, 2023, 08:32:28 am »
Some interesting reading there!  I remember AmD very well from back in the day (90s, early 2000s), when it was Geoff Everett (who sadly passed away) and a couple of other guys. They were the VAG engine mapping & tuning pioneers, and also race car setup  :happy2:  They are not to be confused with the current 'AmD Essex' or 'AmD Tuning' who are nothing like what AmD used to be. I'm not sure how many times they've changed hands, but in the 2010 era, they weren't particularly good.

Aero plays a massive part. Ever noticed how MK5s feel a bit sketchy and vague well past 100? Lowering and stiffening helps, and also removing the stock rake, but they're just not that great aerodynamically. Too much underbody lift. Maybe underbody some aero parts from the A3 might help? All those plastic winglet things on the wishbones and full underbelly covers front and rear.  The front end air flow is a big factor also as you say, hence why the race cars angle the radiator stack at 45 degrees or more and airflow passthrough the bonnet instead of allowing it flow through into the engine bay, which is massive drag  :happy2:

All those wings, splitters and louvred wings we laugh at on road cars, yeah, those things really help on race/track cars  :happy2:  Have you seen that crazy MK2 16v Turbo on Misha Charoudin's YouTube channel? That thing was covered in DIY bodgey looking aero, but it was fast as fook round the ring because of it!

Powder coating looks great.  Yeah the HPFP followers don't wear out if you keep on top of oil the maintenance, and it's generally only those stupidly stiff HPFPs from Loba and APR that chew though followers. That's why I liked the VIS internals as it uses the stock spring  :happy2:

What I would also say is focus on yourself as a driver as well as preparing the car.  You probably won't remember Maurice Reeves. He was famous for blasting round Castle Coombe in his pretty simple MK2 track car, whac ich beat dozens of much more powerful and sophisticated cars. It was purely down to driver skill and the right mods  :happy2:

How is the bimmer going then? still taking it apart all the time like the ed30? Miss it at all?

Its the process of de-gassing the air con put me off doing it myself originally, but I may have another go.

A wavetrac diff is high up on my want list for sure, I think it will find easily a couple seconds per lap in its current form.

Interesting about the r32 battery setup, never thought to do it that way but you're right its all available used.

I didn't know that avout AmD, assumed it was the same firm they just abandoned that motorsport side of things.

Yeah I've found the rear feeling light and unpredictable in high speed turns occasionally, I've blamed it on other things in the past but it could be rear lift as the rear is super draggy. Yeah those "winglets" and bits and bobs would be interesting, I would like to see if I can construct a flat floor out of cardboard for the rear first of all and attach seecurely with full suspension movement, if so I can make a very thing aluminium one or just go with the off the shelf stuff which must do something. Yeah I would love a tcr style intercool/rad ducted to a bonnet vent, should be a massive difference in cooling.

Yeah I mean, when you see the tcr cars with aero or any club racing car with huge budgets (like Darkside and Area motorsport) they look great but anything home made half the time looks sh*t :grin: but cannot deny it works. Yes I know very well that mk2 you're talking about.

Yeah you're absolutely right on the driving, but something I'm on top of. I've done a bit of karting with some success in the past and I've probably put in about 6 or so hours per week on my sim setup for the past 3 years, I race with a league now which is made up of enthusiasts/couple of club racers and 1 or 2 pro drivers which has seen the biggest improvement for my driving by far as you push to find tiny amounts of time you wouldn't look for if you're just practicing on your own. I'm also a Ross Bentley super fan, the blokes a spewing enclyopedia of what is usually unavailable information on driving and racing.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2023, 08:35:05 am by Clarkj93 »

Offline Clarkj93

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Re: Very budget track build
« Reply #230 on: June 20, 2023, 08:36:46 am »
Yeah its a very interesting car for sure, not seen so much aero development on what is basic a box shape :grin: but he's made it work! I've been on his website a few times as he has some real interesting blogs with real data and results and not just "man maths" and assumptions. Clever guy for sure.

Offline bobby_fodge

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Re: Very budget track build
« Reply #231 on: June 20, 2023, 12:21:00 pm »
I have an r32 battery box and battery cables if you need one. I was going to move mine to the boot but didn't in the end.

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Re: Very budget track build
« Reply #232 on: June 20, 2023, 08:49:42 pm »
I have an r32 battery box and battery cables if you need one. I was going to move mine to the boot but didn't in the end.

Thanks, I may take you up on that, I'll let you know!

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Re: Very budget track build
« Reply #233 on: June 20, 2023, 10:11:49 pm »
Took the golf for a commute for the first time in over 3 years the other day. Nice change from the A1.





Oil and brake fluid flush done. Anyone else detest bleeding/flushing brakes? Worst job in my opinion.



MQB ducts delivered from AKS tuning, I was never going to pay nearly 100 quid for the TT 8J ones.



Not seen anyone fit these to anything other than a MQB platform cars and the new yaris gr but looking at the design, they ought to fit any mcphearson strut car. For mine which has the 8J tt arms I had to trim two of the tabs to fit.



Here is the finished product



The idea is airflow is directed to it via this existing duct in the arch liner



I have the mk7 R calipers which just slightly touches the edge of it on full lock but its so slight it wouldn't be an issue, I don't think the standard caliper or anything 4 or 6 pot would get as close to it though, think this caliper is just a bit more intrusive than others. I run a 24mm whiteline arb with whiteline adjustable drop links, and to change my arb stiffness I do have to manoeuvre the drop link and the duct a bit as its extremely tight. I don't think they're going to have a fight on the road but if they do the drop link is obviously going to win and replacing a single £20 duct is no big deal if that does happen, but looks just about ok for now.



I re-worked the existing 2.25 inch brake duct too, I wasn't happy with it so decided to just implement a very basic solution which it is tied solely to the wishbone and does not move with steering input. Its far more maintainable this way and less likely to cause an issue like interfere with the driveshafts boots. I will be trialing if this duct makes any difference on circuit soon. I already know that the rs3 duct is proven so no real reason to test.





Lastly, my arb droplinks have always come undone after installing the whiteline arb, never realised why but I think I've worked out its because they rub on the arch liner and get un-done. So I've cut space for them so no rubbing should happen plus it makes adjusting the arb a little easier.



I'm booked on at Combe for 7th July now, where I'll be trying to find the right tyre pressure range (probably about 30 hot but I'm aiming to try multiple high and low pressures and test the outcome), also I'll be doing various tests on the brake setup as I've already mentioned to monitor temps and how/If I can manipulate this as well as logging various fluid temps throughout the day. Combe is very hard on heat management so it will be a good test.

Offline pudding

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Re: Very budget track build
« Reply #234 on: July 07, 2023, 10:23:18 pm »
"All those wings, splitters and louvred wings we laugh at on road cars, yeah, those things really help on race/track cars  :happy2:  Have you seen that crazy MK2 16v Turbo on Misha Charoudin's YouTube channel? That thing was covered in DIY bodgey looking aero, but it was fast as fook round the ring because of it!"

The mk2 on You tube with the aero is owned by a mate of mine Nigel Pinder, really nice guy would help anyone.

He can lap the 'ring at Porsche GT3 pace low 7.3x mins. Thats quick in anyones book.

www.youtube.com  search pinderwagen

https://pinderwagen.com/





Yeah that's him! That car was quick. I say 'was' because he binned it recently iirc? Not catastrophic though. He'll be back. He seemed like a decent and knowledagble chap on Misha's video  :happy2:

I just find it amazing that such an old car can still cut it with the current breed of fast cars if mods are applied in the right way.  MK2s always were pocket rockets though.

Speaking of Misha, I had to laugh the other day when he blew up that guy's Volvo 240 engine  :grin:  Not his fault, just an old unprepared car, but that is exactly why I would never take a road car on the ring, not one I care about at least  :grin:


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Offline GVK

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Re: Very budget track build
« Reply #235 on: July 07, 2023, 10:26:24 pm »
Yeah, he did stack it at the 'ring a couple of months ago but it's all back up and running, he was there for the 'ring meisters track days this week.

500bhp in a mk2 Golf is going to be quick but just look how a GT4RS pulls away!

« Last Edit: July 07, 2023, 10:32:36 pm by GVK »

Offline pudding

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Re: Very budget track build
« Reply #236 on: July 07, 2023, 10:27:23 pm »
I was watching misha’s vids about that golf recently, its an inspirational car for sure, and goes like anything.

I would love to see the reactions of the supercar owners as they get passed by a 30 year old golf, this kind of build is far more interesting to me that the porsche stuff hes been putting out recently.

I think Misha could pass some decent cars in a Citroen 2CV  :grin:  The man probably has 1000s of hours track experience, which on that track in particular, makes all the difference  :smiley:  I watch a lot of the tourist day crash videos as some of the newbie planks you get on the track are hilarious. Too much hubris!


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Offline pudding

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Re: Very budget track build
« Reply #237 on: July 07, 2023, 10:28:41 pm »
Yeah, he did stack it at the 'ring a couple of months ago but it's all back up and running, he was there for the 'ring meisters track days this week.

Excellent, glad to hear it and look forward to seeing him tear up the track again  :happy2:


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Offline GVK

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Re: Very budget track build
« Reply #238 on: July 07, 2023, 10:35:35 pm »
Sorry for the thread hijack :)

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Re: Very budget track build
« Reply #239 on: July 07, 2023, 11:38:37 pm »
Some interesting reading there!  I remember AmD very well from back in the day (90s, early 2000s), when it was Geoff Everett (who sadly passed away) and a couple of other guys. They were the VAG engine mapping & tuning pioneers, and also race car setup  :happy2:  They are not to be confused with the current 'AmD Essex' or 'AmD Tuning' who are nothing like what AmD used to be. I'm not sure how many times they've changed hands, but in the 2010 era, they weren't particularly good.

Aero plays a massive part. Ever noticed how MK5s feel a bit sketchy and vague well past 100? Lowering and stiffening helps, and also removing the stock rake, but they're just not that great aerodynamically. Too much underbody lift. Maybe underbody some aero parts from the A3 might help? All those plastic winglet things on the wishbones and full underbelly covers front and rear.  The front end air flow is a big factor also as you say, hence why the race cars angle the radiator stack at 45 degrees or more and airflow passthrough the bonnet instead of allowing it flow through into the engine bay, which is massive drag  :happy2:

All those wings, splitters and louvred wings we laugh at on road cars, yeah, those things really help on race/track cars  :happy2:  Have you seen that crazy MK2 16v Turbo on Misha Charoudin's YouTube channel? That thing was covered in DIY bodgey looking aero, but it was fast as fook round the ring because of it!

Powder coating looks great.  Yeah the HPFP followers don't wear out if you keep on top of oil the maintenance, and it's generally only those stupidly stiff HPFPs from Loba and APR that chew though followers. That's why I liked the VIS internals as it uses the stock spring  :happy2:

What I would also say is focus on yourself as a driver as well as preparing the car.  You probably won't remember Maurice Reeves. He was famous for blasting round Castle Coombe in his pretty simple MK2 track car, whac ich beat dozens of much more powerful and sophisticated cars. It was purely down to driver skill and the right mods  :happy2:

How is the bimmer going then? still taking it apart all the time like the ed30? Miss it at all?

Its the process of de-gassing the air con put me off doing it myself originally, but I may have another go.

A wavetrac diff is high up on my want list for sure, I think it will find easily a couple seconds per lap in its current form.

Interesting about the r32 battery setup, never thought to do it that way but you're right its all available used.

I didn't know that avout AmD, assumed it was the same firm they just abandoned that motorsport side of things.

Yeah I've found the rear feeling light and unpredictable in high speed turns occasionally, I've blamed it on other things in the past but it could be rear lift as the rear is super draggy. Yeah those "winglets" and bits and bobs would be interesting, I would like to see if I can construct a flat floor out of cardboard for the rear first of all and attach seecurely with full suspension movement, if so I can make a very thing aluminium one or just go with the off the shelf stuff which must do something. Yeah I would love a tcr style intercool/rad ducted to a bonnet vent, should be a massive difference in cooling.

Yeah I mean, when you see the tcr cars with aero or any club racing car with huge budgets (like Darkside and Area motorsport) they look great but anything home made half the time looks sh*t :grin: but cannot deny it works. Yes I know very well that mk2 you're talking about.

Yeah you're absolutely right on the driving, but something I'm on top of. I've done a bit of karting with some success in the past and I've probably put in about 6 or so hours per week on my sim setup for the past 3 years, I race with a league now which is made up of enthusiasts/couple of club racers and 1 or 2 pro drivers which has seen the biggest improvement for my driving by far as you push to find tiny amounts of time you wouldn't look for if you're just practicing on your own. I'm also a Ross Bentley super fan, the blokes a spewing enclyopedia of what is usually unavailable information on driving and racing.

Apart from it getting covered in seagull sh1t every other day (I work by the coast) yeah it's OK  :grin:  The dirty b@stards even shat on the door handle :grin:  I can't really do much to it as it's still in warranty, so no remaps, coilovers, M3 chassis parts or any of that goodness until it hits 100K, boooooo!
It does get the same ridiculous 3K oil change treatment as the ED30 though :grin: 

Yeah I do miss the ED30's handling and performance. I've always felt MK5s are greater than the sum of their parts. They're so fluid through the twisties and punchy. But for now I need a cruise wagon to eat up the 400 mile a week commute. 50mpg and a smooth auto is more palatable than the ED30's mid 20s and heavy Helix clutch  :grin:

Is it an environmental responsibility thing that puts you off degassing the AC? I must confess, I just dumped it out to atmosphere on an older car in my more reckless days  :doh: :grin:

Yeah the wavetrac will definitely help. Even on public roads, the unloaded wheel used to spin like crazy on roundabouts, in the dry, and not even going at it that hard tbh. It was on my to-do list.  The MK6 XDS ABS upgrade was also up there on my must have mods as it works up to 65mph iirc. The MK5s much weaker TC only works up to 30mph iirc.  That in combination with the wavetrac would be great!

Yeah the only issue with R32 battery cubby hole is the GTI exhaust gets in the way, which is why R32s have a much shorter rear silencer, but it's doable with a different silencer.  It's a better solution than just bunging it in the boot with a generic bracket as the R32 sits the battery really low for good centre of gravity.

Yeah that was also my complaint about the rear end. It felt too vague and floaty at speed. I think some of it is due to a lack of weight back there. The car always handled better with a full tank versus 1/4 full. The Eibach arbs definitely helped with that though, and also getting the spring/damper rates dialled in, which is the tricky bit!

Good stuff  :happy2: Even simple things like supportive seats and seating position can help. I tend to slouch in the seat too much, which is really bad for car control. If I sit more upright and pull the wheel closer to my chest, it makes a massive difference. I don't know if you've seen any Chris Harris videos. Kind of like that really. He sits super low, but has the steering wheel as far out as it will go, like he's almost hugging it  :grin:

You got the MQB wishbone cover deflectory things then  :happy2:  Castle Combe is a decent track. You'll have fun there  :happy2:

« Last Edit: July 20, 2023, 02:57:24 pm by Pudding »


2007 ED30 | 2009 TDI 140 | 2016 BMW 330D