Very budget track build

[rich83]

Just make sure it's a bbk that is proven to work  as you intend. If it's got the name "ap" or "Alcon" on it will be fine... if not then you might be back o square one

[Clarkj93]

Just make sure it's a bbk that is proven to work  as you intend. If it's got the name "ap" or "Alcon" on it will be fine... if not then you might be back o square one

Going by the name of this build thread you know it isn't going to be one of them  but it is a porsche caliper with a large disc, hopefully it's all it's cracked up to be.

[rich83]

Well... we need more info than that 

Solid discs and you still might hit problems.

[Clarkj93]

Well... we need more info than that 

Solid discs and you still might hit problems.

Haha I was hoping for a big reveal well if it's good nick as I been told and I do get it it's a 996 turbo 4 pot caliper running a 350mm ml merc disc. Seems to be a rated setup my only concern thus far is the seals from the heat but I imagine it would either be fine or someone surely makes titanium shims to protect them for what is a well known caliper on circuits.

[Clarkj93]

So... did not get the 996 setup after because the seller took a while to get back to me so assumed they'd gone so I looked elsewhere, spoke to VBT who actually advised me to not get this setup additionally mainly because it will be painful trying to get discs and decent race pads, as the pad choice is slim they said and the discs needs to be machined by them as and when they can...
Instead I spontaneously got this instead



Golf R calipers. Pbs pads. Vbt j hooked discs.

Went for this setup as it was reasonably priced, lighter than the r32 caliper and if I want to upgrade to a 4 pot caliper of some variation in the future then the discs can be reused for the db9 and I think the megane calipers.

Only just got them on and bled after putting a shift on so not had a chance to use them yet.

[Clarkj93]

New front brake setup Bedded in, pedal feel is good, slight gap of no brakes compared to the gti setup as in its a longer pedal but if I wasn't expecting this I may have not noticed as its very slight. Surprised how noisy the j hook discs are, not that it bothers me but I know VBT have made alterations to make these quieter so can only imagine how loud they could have been. Looking forward to testing this setup out in a few weeks at Pembrey, don't think I'll really get to see the difference until I'm on circuit again.

The pad size  difference is quite subsantial


Ebc bluestuff on the rears have worn very fast, 2 track day and maybe 500 road miles and they've got about a 1 track day left in them, I'm swapping them to use as spares now and going to install mintex m155 in the hope they're more durable as I've heard.

Just done an oil change and checked the cam follower, wasn't sure what to expect as it's only done 2k since last checked and maybe 3k max on this follower but a lot of the miles have been hard miles but it's still like new



Got bored and decided to paint the wheels, not meant to be perfect as I cba sanding down tiny imperfections as long as its looks half decent I'm happy. Meant to be satin black but it's come out as Matte instead, still looks decent anyway I think

[pudding]

Yeah I couldn't get on with that dead spot at the top of the pedal.  Where it's most noticeable is dependant on how it's driven and is subjective, but for me it was when cruising at 70ish and someone pulls out on you, and you just want to scrub about 10mph off.......nothing    I mean, it's not horrendous and just needs a firmer press on the pedal, but when you do 80 miles a day with that.....yeah.....it gets annoying 

J hooks are noisy are they?  See, other folk who've used them have never mentioned that    I did suspect as much as grooved discs I've used in the past made horrible grumbling noises, and the drilled Clubsport S discs make a ticking noise as you pull up....kind of like a cricket chirping away.  Anyway, old man gripes aside, I'm glad the mods are working out 

[Clarkj93]

Awesome day at Pembrey. Never been before but a really cool circuit and very technical. 31 degrees most of the day took its toll on me and the car a little!



New brake setup took some getting used to, trail braking requires a heavier foot for these calipers on the mk5 master cylinder which feels a little wrong at first but with this setup with pbs pro race on the front and mintex m155 on the back it really shocked me how much quicker it stops when the pads and tyres are warm, felt wicked out braking a lot of light weight and better prepared track cars in a 1.4 tonne fat boy golf with heated seats and air con temp stickers show 140-160 on the calipers which is much lower than before but with it getting hotter and hotter and then getting carried away and staying out far too long on the last session they got seriously hot, didn't help that it was so hot they didn't cool down that much between sessions either.



Will check how the pads have coped and maybe bleed the brakes just in case but it all feels fine still on the drive home tbh.

Weirdly bumped into the guy who did the geo for the golf there while he was supporting a customers race car for the day. Embarrassingly he pointed out that I had my directional tyres facing the wrong way for some reason I never clocked that if you swap sides they they face the wrong way they've been like that for ages as well, I've been wondering why it's felt so twitchy on brakes and turn in lately As you can imagine turning them the correct way meant the car felt a solid 2 or so seconds a lap faster, just way more grip everywhere and much more stable in every respect.

Did feel a little softly sprung in places, not sure if I can get some stiffer springs to fit the top mounts as it takes something like a 4 inch diameter spring on the mount and the shock body takes something like a 2 inch diameter. I've not seen anyone sell custom rated springs that vary in size top to bottom. Adapater needed? Or suitable top mount needed instead?



On way back though its misfiring very badly, cylinder 1. Smell of fuel outside the car and and not plugs or coils so I'm going to assume the fuel injector is dead. Not done the inlet manifold before, it looks a not so fun job.

My winter mod list keeps changing as expensive life events are taking over but thinking the aim is to get about 100kg of weight out of the car without losing air con or carpets yet to stop the cabin getting too hot and Poly bush everything with super pro. No way I'm paying for spherical (...yet?) And the rubber ones are old as he'll and a bit like marshmallows I think as it does feelt a little soft.

[pudding]

What's on the car at the moment? PSS9?  Sounds like you need more damping than spring rate.  If you add more spring to the same dampers, it will just get bouncy and feel worse.

[Clarkj93]

What's on the car at the moment? PSS9?  Sounds like you need more damping than spring rate.  If you add more spring to the same dampers, it will just get bouncy and feel worse.

Yeah, rebound on them is stiff but compression is soft, that's why I opted to keep the rear bump stops full length rather than trimming as most do in the hope this may have the effect of stiffening rear bump up to keep weight over the front when on the power. What you're saying would make more sense with my previous findings, I was hoping going just a smidge or 2 on spring rate would help but yeah maybe you're right there..

I do actually really like the default settings for these dampers and got one hell of a deal on them at the time but starting to wonder if they were a mistake not having adjustment. Maybe just some ARB tuning would sort. currently on mid on the front 24mm whiteline and full hard on the rear 24mm whiteline. I'll try the front full stiff next time, maybe a stiffer front bar and even rear is needed in future.

[pudding]

Damping adjustment is very useful for track work.  Whack it up to the max on track, dial it back again for the journey home 

Sounds like the PSS10s are more suitable for your needs.  Maybe sell the PSS9s to help fund them?

ARBs can help but they add to the spring rate also in the corners, which isn't pleasant if they are at max stiffness and one wheel hits a bump!

[Clarkj93]

Yeah they would have been better but they seem like poor value when they're sometimes nearly double the price of b14 themselves for just adding adjustment, as important as that is I bet they're not twice the damper.

Bc racing br is uber popular but frankly it bugged me that everyone had it and wanted to try something different and also too much for your money - was not convinced it would be great quality of damping or the valving was actually suitable for the application, I've heard it's a generic formula for them, the adjustable top mounts would have been nice though.

I want to learn more about dampers and the valving and spring rates before scouring a new set I think anyway but won't be getting a new set any time soon, more important things needed first. I like how Gaz actually tailor to what you want when ordering the golds, I know they don't last forever but can be rebuilt and some successful race cars run them.  Ast's are raved about but expensive like KW's and Ohlins etc.

[pudding]

Suspension can be a nightmare to figure out, not to mention expensive.  Sometimes it pays to consult an expert to get precisely the right spring and damper rates for your car.

I did that years ago with my Corrado and Julian at BalanceMotorsport did all the calculations for me (roll centres, weights, motion ratios etc etc...it gets complicated) which led me to Gaz's door, and a set of Gold coilovers.  The ride and body control were epic, but the quality was abysmal.

Anyway, long story short...... Gaz Gold and Ohlins DFV are the only two stand out coilovers I've tried over the years, and I've tried a lot! 

I don't like Bilstein stuff, never have. It's totally not suited to UK roads. Either too stiff or too soft. Even their OE spec B4s (which I'm currently using) are complete garbage.

KWs I found were over rated, pretty middling really.....but the Inox ones last forever.

Never tried AST but hear they are tops 

If you want top mounts, nothing comes close to Ground Control.  Unfortunately those and AST 3 ways are almost worth more than the car 

[Clarkj93]

Suspension can be a nightmare to figure out, not to mention expensive.  Sometimes it pays to consult an expert to get precisely the right spring and damper rates for your car.

I did that years ago with my Corrado and Julian at BalanceMotorsport did all the calculations for me (roll centres, weights, motion ratios etc etc...it gets complicated) which led me to Gaz's door, and a set of Gold coilovers.  The ride and body control were epic, but the quality was abysmal.

Anyway, long story short...... Gaz Gold and Ohlins DFV are the only two stand out coilovers I've tried over the years, and I've tried a lot! 

I don't like Bilstein stuff, never have. It's totally not suited to UK roads. Either too stiff or too soft. Even their OE spec B4s (which I'm currently using) are complete garbage.

KWs I found were over rated, pretty middling really.....but the Inox ones last forever.

Never tried AST but hear they are tops 

If you want top mounts, nothing comes close to Ground Control.  Unfortunately those and AST 3 ways are almost worth more than the car 

Yeah I was thinking of doing the same next time!

Yeah I got to say the B14 is a weird one as on a narrower circuit or low grip circuit the feel good but on hard long bends on a high grip surface they do feel too soft. But considering they're more marketed for road and some track I got to say I'd be pissed off if I bought them just for the road, sh*t road manners even when I had no arb's on, the rebound is just stiff enough that it destroys the comfort. Feels good though on a bumpy circuit but terrible on the road.

Yeah I think I will end up with ground control mounts at some point as I do want more camber, just nothing else comes close. Silver projects do dead cheap mounts but unsure as I've heard some dodgy things about their top mounts in the past... like more on the lines of dangerous rather than just a bit iffy.

[pudding]

Suspension can be a nightmare to figure out, not to mention expensive.  Sometimes it pays to consult an expert to get precisely the right spring and damper rates for your car.

I did that years ago with my Corrado and Julian at BalanceMotorsport did all the calculations for me (roll centres, weights, motion ratios etc etc...it gets complicated) which led me to Gaz's door, and a set of Gold coilovers.  The ride and body control were epic, but the quality was abysmal.

Anyway, long story short...... Gaz Gold and Ohlins DFV are the only two stand out coilovers I've tried over the years, and I've tried a lot! 

I don't like Bilstein stuff, never have. It's totally not suited to UK roads. Either too stiff or too soft. Even their OE spec B4s (which I'm currently using) are complete garbage.

KWs I found were over rated, pretty middling really.....but the Inox ones last forever.

Never tried AST but hear they are tops 

If you want top mounts, nothing comes close to Ground Control.  Unfortunately those and AST 3 ways are almost worth more than the car 

Yeah I was thinking of doing the same next time!

Yeah I got to say the B14 is a weird one as on a narrower circuit or low grip circuit the feel good but on hard long bends on a high grip surface they do feel too soft. But considering they're more marketed for road and some track I got to say I'd be pissed off if I bought them just for the road, sh*t road manners even when I had no arb's on, the rebound is just stiff enough that it destroys the comfort. Feels good though on a bumpy circuit but terrible on the road.

Yeah I think I will end up with ground control mounts at some point as I do want more camber, just nothing else comes close. Silver projects do dead cheap mounts but unsure as I've heard some dodgy things about their top mounts in the past... like more on the lines of dangerous rather than just a bit iffy.

On the Corrado, I switched from H&R Comfort coilovers (PSS9 with H&Rs own springs) to the Gaz Gold, and it was a revelation! But because the Golds only lasted approx. 9 months, I then went to KW V3.....and they were crap if I'm honest. Way under damped, even on the stiffest settings.  Gaz were great about the failure though, but I just didn't trust them again after that experience.

See, that's exactly what I mean about Bilstein coilovers.  Their high speed compression valving is just ridiculously over the top and unnecessary.  People that get on with them must have smooth roads is all I can say!

The Ohlins are like the Bilsteins but without the harshness over bumps, and come with sensible spring rates. 70n/mm front and 60n/mm rear.  That's approx twice factory spring rate, but works well because of the damping quality and factory arbs.  Still works great with Eibach arbs but ride does suffer a little, but not as much as other coilovers.

Yeah the cheap stuff makes me wonder in terms of structural integrity!  The GCs are just so frickin expensive.  When you hold a set in your hands, you see why though!

BC Racing are OKish....but generic damping as you say.  You're in the same place I was 4 or 5 years ago!  Not happy with the usual offerings but the good stuff is too expensive