Subframe Clunk/Pop/Creak

[ljc19630]

Hey folks,
Been a while since i posted as had personal issues that I've had to contend and deal with! However Happy to say these are now behind me, hence only looking FORWARDS now!!!!

Ok, so the STG3 Venom450 Hybrid ED30 with 160k miles is just a hoot.....I love it, and it makes me smile every time i drive it. R-Tech did a fab job

Over the past few months I've encountered the common Subframe Clunk/Pop/Creak when taking slow turns, entering driveways, coming to a stop, and starting from a standstill. My pal who owns Surrey Tuning recommended the 034MOTORSPORT STAINLESS STEEL SUBFRAME LOCKING COLLAR UPGRADE KIT - DEADSET - PQ35 kit. Mad price, but got this trade and had it fitted a few weeks back. As the subframe was moved about, i needed to get a front wheel alignment done. Went to Kwik Fit in Horsham (know them and good guys) and they aligned on the hunter 4wd set up. Drove out and noticed the steering wheel was not straight when driving and car pulled to n/s. Took it back, re aligned, same issue..........3rd time visiting, and one of the guys i know asked me to look at the subframe. (Pics attached) as it seems that the subframe, post 034 kit install hadn't lined up with the initial OEM subframe position, and Kwik Fit said that they could only align to how the subframe was currently sitting. SOoooooooooo. I tell my pal, who questions this, but I ask for the car to be checked. Today, i go back, he does whatever it was he done, and says its ok. I go back to Kwik Fit (4th time).........subframe is the same as before, the align as they had done 3 times before, and guess what.......steering wheel still of centre and car pulls to n/s. I've also attached the print out post 4th re alignment. Anyone have any idea why this is happening? @Pudding........come to my rescue!!!!!!!

[terrier]

steering wheel needs to be centred before tracking is done and NOT move whilst being set up  
 Never seen  the words kwik fit and good guys in the same sentence before My local is proper sh*t They even have a girl working there

[breeze]

There is another thread that covers general discussion on these that I posted in (if you can find it).

My understanding is that the factory uses the play in the subframe to align during build (tightening down once set, obviously). The shims take that play away and can fix you in a position that is different to how it left the factory. Solution at that point is to use something like adjustable front arms/balljoints to get adjustability back.

My car had a creak when I got it. I replaced shocks and top mounts and it mostly went away. Small creak every now and then.

[pudding]

Hi mate, glad you're back and got the car running well 

Yeah the steering wheel needs to be centred before any alignment work takes place.  Or to be more precise, VAG-COM is needed to ensure the steering angle shows 0 degrees, which is more accurate than eye balling it.  You can move the steering wheel around a few notches on the spline, which is what most people do, but it's better for the ESP performance to have all it setup around 0 degrees.

Once that's done, the tracking can be adjusted.  Don't worry if you end up with uneven camber, most of them left the factory like that!  The marks on the floor are just where the subframe used to sit, but is now centralised so nothing to worry about.

I don't really understand how they couldn't get it tracking straight after 4 attempts, and on a Hunter jig as well    Some training required there I think!

[ljc19630]

Hi mate, glad you're back and got the car running well 

Yeah the steering wheel needs to be centred before any alignment work takes place.  Or to be more precise, VAG-COM is needed to ensure the steering angle shows 0 degrees, which is more accurate than eye balling it.  You can move the steering wheel around a few notches on the spline, which is what most people do, but it's better for the ESP performance to have all it setup around 0 degrees.

Once that's done, the tracking can be adjusted.  Don't worry if you end up with uneven camber, most of them left the factory like that!  The marks on the floor are just where the subframe used to sit, but is now centralised so nothing to worry about.

I don't really understand how they couldn't get it tracking straight after 4 attempts, and on a Hunter jig as well    Some training required there I think!

Hey Kev, thanks mate. Yeah the car is great. Considering i've had a load of mad cars (1100hp GTR) this is by far the most fun!!!!

I get your point re Kwik Fit - The did confirm that they had the steering wheel centered (Not using VCDS) BUT said that the subframe was not aligned correctly as if you look at the pics i posted you can see the "shiny" area where presumably the subframe was positioned before the deadset bolts were installed? My thoughts are that surely the bolts & additional collets would naturally pull the subframe back in to its original position?

[Birchy]

Sounds like either their machine isn’t calibrated properly or they have set it up wrong for the readings/adjustment. If the subframe has moved slightly then had the alignment done it shouldn’t make any difference to the outcome (unless it is wildly bent!)

[Freem82]

I was in a similar situation, went to ats for 4 wheel alignment, went back because the wheel was off to the left, re adjusted, still off to the left so I went to someone else and guess what........ still off to the left.
I gave up and made very minor adjustments to both sides myself, a quarter of a turn in on one side and a quarter of a turn out on the other side (track rod ends) and now it's perfect, wheels straight, no pulling to the left or right. I really don't understand how they can't get it right with all this special equipment, all I needed was a couple of spanners.

[ljc19630]

Thanks to all that have replied.

I'm currently sat at Gatwick Tyres, as been here before for alignment as they too have the Hunter Alignment kit. Car is just going on ramp now, so I'm hoping that they can sort it. I'm still concerned that the subframe doesn't appear to be lined up, as per the pics i posted, but according to my pal that fitted the 034 Deadset bolts, its fine. Steering Was spot on before i went for this kit, so something ain't right

[pudding]

The shiny areas are just where the subframe used to sit.  The dead set kits realign the subframe holes to be dead centre (hence their name) which will naturally repositions the subframe.  When these cars left the factory, the subframe could be a few mm over to one side compared to another one. They literally threw them up to the floor and worried about the alignment afterwards.

Subframe position really doesn't matter though, in terms of alignment.  At the end of the day, all they can adjust at the front is toe anyway, which is pretty rudimentary for any alignment shop, or ought to be at least 

1100hp GTR!    Are you sure the Golf is more fun??! 

[Freem82]

Interested to hear how you got on ?

[ljc19630]

The shiny areas are just where the subframe used to sit.  The dead set kits realign the subframe holes to be dead centre (hence their name) which will naturally repositions the subframe.  When these cars left the factory, the subframe could be a few mm over to one side compared to another one. They literally threw them up to the floor and worried about the alignment afterwards.

Subframe position really doesn't matter though, in terms of alignment.  At the end of the day, all they can adjust at the front is toe anyway, which is pretty rudimentary for any alignment shop, or ought to be at least 

1100hp GTR!    Are you sure the Golf is more fun??! 

Hey Kev,
That makes so much sense now, and i understand what you've explained - Thanks mate!
So Jordan at Gatwick Tyres (fellow petrol head) adjusted the alignment. He did say that it looks like Kwik Fit may be using an older version of s/w on their hunter, which could account for the issues i've had. However he tweaked the settings and asked me to drive it over the weekend and see how it is. Whilst its a LOT better, the steering wheel is still slightly off centre and still pulls to the n/s, so going back tomorrow for hopefully the final check and alignment. I've added a pic of the existing set up.

[breeze]

The shiny areas are just where the subframe used to sit.  The dead set kits realign the subframe holes to be dead centre (hence their name) which will naturally repositions the subframe.  When these cars left the factory, the subframe could be a few mm over to one side compared to another one. They literally threw them up to the floor and worried about the alignment afterwards.

Subframe position really doesn't matter though, in terms of alignment.  At the end of the day, all they can adjust at the front is toe anyway, which is pretty rudimentary for any alignment shop, or ought to be at least 

1100hp GTR!    Are you sure the Golf is more fun??! 

Hey Kev,
That makes so much sense now, and i understand what you've explained - Thanks mate!
So Jordan at Gatwick Tyres (fellow petrol head) adjusted the alignment. He did say that it looks like Kwik Fit may be using an older version of s/w on their hunter, which could account for the issues i've had. However he tweaked the settings and asked me to drive it over the weekend and see how it is. Whilst its a LOT better, the steering wheel is still slightly off centre and still pulls to the n/s, so going back tomorrow for hopefully the final check and alignment. I've added a pic of the existing set up.

That looks good. Remember the only thing that he can adjust directly at the front now the dead set is installed is toe.

Have you have a look at your tyres? Same brand and even wear particularly at the front? I’m sure you know this already but a car the left of the road will pull to the left due to the crown of the road. If you can find a clear road try driving in the middle to see if that helps.

Thanks for keeping us up to date. My car drives wonderfully straight and trying to decide whether to fit the dead set kit I have in the garage!

[ljc19630]

The shiny areas are just where the subframe used to sit.  The dead set kits realign the subframe holes to be dead centre (hence their name) which will naturally repositions the subframe.  When these cars left the factory, the subframe could be a few mm over to one side compared to another one. They literally threw them up to the floor and worried about the alignment afterwards.

Subframe position really doesn't matter though, in terms of alignment.  At the end of the day, all they can adjust at the front is toe anyway, which is pretty rudimentary for any alignment shop, or ought to be at least 

1100hp GTR!    Are you sure the Golf is more fun??! 

Hey Kev,
That makes so much sense now, and i understand what you've explained - Thanks mate!
So Jordan at Gatwick Tyres (fellow petrol head) adjusted the alignment. He did say that it looks like Kwik Fit may be using an older version of s/w on their hunter, which could account for the issues i've had. However he tweaked the settings and asked me to drive it over the weekend and see how it is. Whilst its a LOT better, the steering wheel is still slightly off centre and still pulls to the n/s, so going back tomorrow for hopefully the final check and alignment. I've added a pic of the existing set up.

That looks good. Remember the only thing that he can adjust directly at the front now the dead set is installed is toe.

Have you have a look at your tyres? Same brand and even wear particularly at the front? I’m sure you know this already but a car the left of the road will pull to the left due to the crown of the road. If you can find a clear road try driving in the middle to see if that helps.

Thanks for keeping us up to date. My car drives wonderfully straight and trying to decide whether to fit the dead set kit I have in the garage!

Thanks my friend,
It confuses the crap out of me, Toe, Caster, Camber!!!! I need to have a read up on how this all equates!!!! Tyres are (Goodyear F1 Eagle SS - on recommendation of @Pudding) wearing evenly. I'm due to do an oil & filter change at 160k (do this every 5k) and will swap front/rears around to get even wear, as they'd have covered just over 5k. I have a road near me thats long and straight, and actually did the test you mention yesterday. It's a tad better, but still pulls to the left. When driving normally (in the road) If i let go of the steering wheel, its pulling quite significantly to the n/s (on a scale of 10 for aggressiveness i'd sat 6.5) I spoke to Jordan at Gatwick Tyres, and he said we can go out together in the car to test before and after he's re adjusted the alignment. I'll keep you all posted on this and really appreciate your help with this chaps! 

[breeze]

Learn something new every day:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q2grQILEVo

So your car should pull slightly to the left. Online people say half a degree (what you have) is the point that it starts to show.

[ljc19630]

Learn something new every day:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q2grQILEVo

So your car should pull slightly to the left. Online people say half a degree (what you have) is the point that it starts to show.

Hey bud,
It was fine before the dead set bolts went in. Had new discs and pads fitted around 3k miles ago too.