Make a donation

Author Topic: exhausts different bores?  (Read 8877 times)

Offline sm17hy

  • Taking part
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 29
    • Email
exhausts different bores?
« on: January 23, 2009, 09:23:21 pm »
been lookin all over the net. few different exhaust to choose from but the bores range from 2.5" to 3"

am stuck to think which is best?!

i've always thought it better to get rid of gases quick but its back pressure u have to watch out for as well.

so would like all your opinions please  :P

Offline VC

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 80
  • -Receive: 93
  • Posts: 4359
    • Very Cherry Stickers and Decals
Re: exhausts different bores?
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2009, 10:27:15 pm »
the way ive always been led to believe is the hose pipe theory

basically when the water is running slowly to remove it from the pipe as fast as possible you need to pinch the end of the hose, therefore saying that at low speeds you need your zorst pipes small. that said, when you increase the water in the hose you no longer need to pinch the end to release the higher flow, indicating that at speed you need a bigger bore.

the answer lies in the happy medium, which itself can be a grey area as it can also depend on the mods you have. too big a pipe and you will lose power, to small a pipe and you will restrict it.

summary, unless you decat i wouldnt stray any further than 3" which should accomodate most mods, give better performance (assuming you upgrade your cars intake at the same time as improving the exhaust gas removal combined with an ECU remap to knit it all together)

3" sounds nice too  :wink:

Offline VC

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 80
  • -Receive: 93
  • Posts: 4359
    • Very Cherry Stickers and Decals
Re: exhausts different bores?
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2009, 10:28:29 pm »
oh...and back pressure isnt a relevent issue with a modern car such as the golf, doesnt exist  :happy2:

Offline sm17hy

  • Taking part
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 29
    • Email
Re: exhausts different bores?
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2009, 10:53:51 pm »
thanks for the info!  :happy2:

Offline john_o

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 136
  • -Receive: 108
  • Posts: 2946
    • My Car Blog
Re: exhausts different bores?
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2009, 11:57:36 pm »
what car you got sm17hy ??

2.5 normally on the GTI
3 on the ED30

however at least two members on here have deliberately chosen a 2.5 downpipe as there have been some great dyno results indicating the ed30's work well in this config. This does however fly in convention, and EGT's have never been measured to see if its a problem. Needless to say the cars run brilliantly  :happy2:

do lots of forum research, also depends on the level of tune you want to run (std / remapped etc)

Milltek most popular, but APR have the RSC and Matt has just had a custom 3' fitted by Bluflame too

not so sure about the no back pressure thing Very Cherry tbh
Red ED35 5dr DSG
DEFI boost guage / RTech Stg1 Engine/DSG / PPMk7 front brakes
BLOG | BUILD

Offline VC

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 80
  • -Receive: 93
  • Posts: 4359
    • Very Cherry Stickers and Decals
Re: exhausts different bores?
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2009, 12:09:53 am »
not so sure about the no back pressure thing Very Cherry tbh

maybe i should put it into context a bit more, the backpressure isnt really influenced when you talking about a modern automotive exhaust as such, as any pressure wont particularly come from the bore of the tube but from any resistence such as bends or obstructions. so not really a concern from a modern day car,  in the case of the golf this will only really happen with over complex exhausts that have to move through the length of the car utilise series of complex bends for clearance over undercarraige 'furniture'. the standard route is normally the most direct to avoid these complications.

this means that as long as the shape of the exhaust and route hasnt changed dramatically  and no dramatic additions are made to it from the factory design, then the bore when talking in 0.5"s in difference wont come into play

theres more risk of back pressure from running to small a bore rather than too big as the engine cylinders fire at different times, which mean exhaust leaves them at different times thus creating waves of gas. the wave from one cylinder may not completely vacate if the pipe is too small before the next pressure wave makes its way into the mix, in the same way that overcomplicated bends and obstructions can create back pressure so does this and a restriction in the engine's exhaust system can restrict the engine's true performance possibilities

happy mediums, but depends on how much modding you have planned as to how serious you make it, if its just for a bit of noise and hopefully a few horses then its nothing to worry about in that sense



« Last Edit: January 24, 2009, 12:22:40 am by Very Cherry »

Offline jonnyc

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 4
  • -Receive: 15
  • Posts: 2180
  • Herrooooo!
    • Email
Re: exhausts different bores?
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2009, 12:26:45 pm »
Both the standard GTI and ED30 have exactly the same 2.5" exhaust system..

Some of the guys on here are running 70mm (2.75") Milltek downpipes, designed for the K03 GTI, with good results..

Still, the results would be even better with a 76mm (3") downpipe, as I have on my car, you can get away with a 2.5" system on a k03 turbo car, but 2.75 downpipe and 2.5" cat-back is the best IMO.

For K04 you need a 3" full system to see the best results  :happy2:
APR Stage III TT-RS - 11.37 1/4 mile - 2.82 0-60 MPH

Build thread http://www.vagoc.co.uk/vb/showthread.php?t=3128

Offline MAT ED30

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 25
  • -Receive: 82
  • Posts: 5728
  • Vwr fan boy
    • Email
Re: exhausts different bores?
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2009, 12:56:42 pm »
As jonny says 3"" system sounds  :evilgrin: and you should see better gains if you have that  :happy2:

Mods yes but way too many to stick in this little box

Offline WhiteGTI

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 29
  • -Receive: 22
  • Posts: 3222
  • F-A-S-T
Re: exhausts different bores?
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2009, 01:28:37 pm »
Some say that having a 3" with a stock ECU car results in some low-down torque loss - due to the increased air mass required to be moved, however I experienced no loss when mine was fitted. I ran the 3" system with the stock car for three days before I put the remap on.

Not that answers your question, but it may help a little.

Chris.
2008 Golf GTI - Revo Stage 2 NOW SOLD

2006 E46 BMW M3 - 343hp
2000 Lotus Elise Sport160 - 160hp

Offline RunRabbit

  • Always Involved
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 0
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 162
    • Email
Re: exhausts different bores?
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2009, 06:46:05 pm »
Backpressure? Who needs it when you've got a big turbo in the way  :wink: bigger the better on a turbocharged car, if you can stand the noise go for a front exit exhaust  :jumping:

Offline Top Cat

  • Top cat
  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 171
  • -Receive: 335
  • Posts: 8196
  • Almost Jacamo
Re: exhausts different bores?
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2009, 04:29:15 pm »
Both the standard GTI and ED30 have exactly the same 2.5" exhaust system..

Some of the guys on here are running 70mm (2.75") Milltek downpipes, designed for the K03 GTI, with good results..

Still, the results would be even better with a 76mm (3") downpipe, as I have on my car, you can get away with a 2.5" system on a k03 turbo car, but 2.75 downpipe and 2.5" cat-back is the best IMO.

For K04 you need a 3" full system to see the best results  :happy2:

I am getting a bit confused with this guys. Is 3" system ok on a KO3 or will it be too big.  :rolleye:

Offline tony_danza

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 3
  • -Receive: 112
  • Posts: 3013
  • The voice of objective reason, but mine's best.
Re: exhausts different bores?
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2009, 04:34:49 pm »
^ That's my thinking TC, I think 2.75 is best???
Sideways yo!

Offline jonnyc

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 4
  • -Receive: 15
  • Posts: 2180
  • Herrooooo!
    • Email
Re: exhausts different bores?
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2009, 04:37:30 pm »
^ That's my thinking TC, I think 2.75 is best???

For a K03 car I would say no bigger than 2.75" really.. Guys in the US would disagree though, I find the best way is to just try it..

Its going to be a trade off for top end power when you go smaller, as the K03 runs out of boost at about 5k revs its pretty pointless going large on the bore size.. For a K04 which still makes power at 7k its well worth it..

If I go big turbo on mine (GT3071R) then im going to go with an 80mm downpipe and 76mm system..
APR Stage III TT-RS - 11.37 1/4 mile - 2.82 0-60 MPH

Build thread http://www.vagoc.co.uk/vb/showthread.php?t=3128

Offline tony_danza

  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 3
  • -Receive: 112
  • Posts: 3013
  • The voice of objective reason, but mine's best.
Re: exhausts different bores?
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2009, 04:41:34 pm »
The Yanks think bigger is better by default.

So, a 2.5 will benefit low down torque and a 2.75 will loose a touch of this torque in trade off for a better release at the top of the revs??
Sideways yo!

Offline Top Cat

  • Top cat
  • Just look at my post count
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 171
  • -Receive: 335
  • Posts: 8196
  • Almost Jacamo
Re: exhausts different bores?
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2009, 04:43:53 pm »
^ That's my thinking TC, I think 2.75 is best???

For a K03 car I would say no bigger than 2.75" really.. Guys in the US would disagree though, I find the best way is to just try it..

Its going to be a trade off for top end power when you go smaller, as the K03 runs out of boost at about 5k revs its pretty pointless going large on the bore size.. For a K04 which still makes power at 7k its well worth it..

If I go big turbo on mine (GT3071R) then im going to go with an 80mm downpipe and 76mm system..

I understand the logic in 3" being pointless.  :smiley: but would it cause any loss in power.  :chicken: