Power from a stage 1 map? Possibly more than you would think!

[Janner_Sy]

can we see these graphs please.  could you also use the full width of the graph so we can see the power/torque curves

[PDT]

(in response to damogeans post)


A standard K04 will usually see between 295 and 305 bhp, or 360 if you provide your own bungee cord and stand WELL back  


The limitations of Revo are that you have a sliding scale from 1-9 for timing, boost and fuelling and you are limited to this as you can't adjust a certain parameter against an rpm or throttle value, so it's 1-9 boost and that's that. What if you want the equivalent of 11 boost? Well you need to start again with stage 2 or 2+.

And you want to add boost at full throttle at 3000 rpm but not at 5000 rpm? Not possible. And you are getting timing pull at 3000 rpm but not at 6500 rpm so you remove timing to solve the problem at 3000 rpm but this also removes timing at 6500 rpm and the peak power is lower.

With a custom map in that situation you can remove timing at 3000rpm to resolve the timing pull issue and add some at 6500rpm, this allows you to have the best of both worlds. It's far more technical than that in reality but that's the basics behind the limitations and how a custom map overcomes these limitations to achieve the desired results.

[KRL]

Am really interested in this discussion, despite having a K04 based car. Dave, can you elaborate a little on the limitations of Revo, compared to a custom map and how this removes such limitations. I like the technical discussions 

Same here  

Dave have you got any VCDS logs of the cars?  I would particularly like to see boost, timing advance, timing pull, rail pressure, n75 cycle, maf g/s, and engine load.

[DelB]

I have however seen very similar power from 1 other companies maps, they also adjust this parameter in a similar way, so it's by no means a new 'miracle invention'

Dave. 

Are you prepared to say who the '1 other company' is? Reason I ask is that I've not long ago had a GIAC Stage 1 map installed, along with a new OEM DV, and got 255 bhp and 303 lb/ft on the rollers at Star Performance in Kirkcaldy.

[Poppa Dom]

(in response to damogeans post)


A standard K04 will usually see between 295 and 305 bhp, or 360 if you provide your own bungee cord and stand WELL back 


The limitations of Revo are that you have a sliding scale from 1-9 for timing, boost and fuelling and you are limited to this as you can't adjust a certain parameter against an rpm or throttle value, so it's 1-9 boost and that's that. What if you want the equivalent of 11 boost? Well you need to start again with stage 2 or 2+.

And you want to add boost at full throttle at 3000 rpm but not at 5000 rpm? Not possible. And you are getting timing pull at 3000 rpm but not at 6500 rpm so you remove timing to solve the problem at 3000 rpm but this also removes timing at 6500 rpm and the peak power is lower.

With a custom map in that situation you can remove timing at 3000rpm to resolve the timing pull issue and add some at 6500rpm, this allows you to have the best of both worlds. It's far more technical than that in reality but that's the basics behind the limitations and how a custom map overcomes these limitations to achieve the desired results.

Thanks Dave, clear and succinct post which has answered by question well, thanks 

[vRS Carl]

Thanks from me as well.

Im even more interested now and would like to know if the same could be done with a Stage 2+ file.

You never know we might see a K03 genuinely crack 290bhp

[Janner_Sy]

bacilus has managed to crack 300Hp on his on numerous rollerson rolling road days when everyone else has made as expected in comparison

[vRS Carl]

With what mods?

[WhiteGTI]

Personally, I'd much prefer to see a KO3 with Revo and a KO3 with this custom software actually bench tested. That will give the only credible answer!

Rolling roads are so innacurate! Look at mine at the Superchips day...same conditions as every other car and my KO3 ran 293hp simply because it was running hotter than the other cars and so the rolling road over corrected for it (or this is my limited understanding of what happened)....

[Janner_Sy]

With what mods?

stage 2+ but std intake iirc

[PDT]

To answer a few peoples questions, not started on maps for. A stage 2+ equivalent yet for either ko3 or ko4 and with the work load at present I don't plan on doing so this side of Xmas!

As for the 'other company' that has achieved similar by using the same method, they will remain nameless as they may not be happy that other tuners are pulling apart their software developments this is commonplace in the tuning industry but most won't admit to it!  

[vRS Carl]

With what mods?

stage 2+ but std intake iirc

Im ditching the EVOMS then  

[vRS Carl]

To answer a few peoples questions, not started on maps for. A stage 2+ equivalent yet for either ko3 or ko4 and with the world at present I don't plan on doing so this side of Xmas!

As for the 'other company' that has achieved similar by using the same method, they will remain nameless as they may not be happy that other tuners are pulling apart their software developments this is commonplace in the tuning industry but most won't admit to it!  

Want a guinea pig?

[Janner_Sy]

I have however seen very similar power from 1 other companies maps, they also adjust this parameter in a similar way, so it's by no means a new 'miracle invention'

Are you prepared to say who the '1 other company' is? Reason I ask is that I've not long ago had a GIAC Stage 1 map installed, along with a new OEM DV, and got 255 bhp and 303 lb/ft on the rollers at Star Performance in Kirkcaldy.

TAs for the 'other company' that has achieved similar by using the same method, they will remain nameless as they may not be happy that other tuners are pulling apart their software developments this is commonplace in the tuning industry but most won't admit to it!  

hope we weren't copying there, thats cheating,  only joking mate.  fair play and hats off to you if you have managed to do this.  Custom mapping will always be better IMO.

im keen to see the dyno and logs of each as well.  how are you getting around the fueling iassues on the standard pump.  thats alot of torque for the std pump to manage.

[PDT]

Tbh revo stage2+ seems pretty much perfect!