Michelin Pilot sport 3

[Beddie]

PS3 are way better in the wet than PS2's IMHO 

Exactly my findings too 

[Phil_T]

Great tyres thanks to people on here, the grip is really good & is great in the rain today as found out today givin it some after getting stage 2+ lol

[simonp]

Peeps keep going on about Costco. What's involved there then?

[Teutonic_Tamer]

So . . . all you who are claiming the PS3s are better than the PS2s - exactly how are you coming to that opinion?

I have two cars - one with brand spanking new PS2s, and the other with virtually new  PS3s - and I can assure you - the PS2s have a far better resistance to aquaplaning.  All on identical roads (I have a geeky standard test route for all my cars, loaners, customers, etc.)

The PS3 is generally better in some areas compared to the PS2 - but the PS2 is noticeably better in the wet - particularly in standing water.

[SteveP]

But your comparision is based on two different cars T_T?

Personally I fully agree with michelin's own comparision:-



This is based on running PS2 and PS3's on the same car 

[vRS Carl]

^^^^ Your the only person I have heard say that Sean.

Every review I have read and my own experience say different and agree that PS3 are better especially in the wet than any of the other popular performance tyres (PS2, Sessantas, F1 Assymetric etc)

Maybe it's your driving

[Teutonic_Tamer]

But your comparision is based on two different cars T_T?

And your comparison is based on what?  Brand new PS3s replacing worn out PS2s?  Most brand new tyres, even shyte ones, will perform better in the wet when compared to old tyres on the tread wear indicators.

But yes - they are on two different cars - but then those cars have tyres matched to their overall abilities.  The GTI comes standard with 225s (and I upgraded to 235s), and my RS4 was standard with 255s (now upgraded to 275s).  The new PS3s are on the GTI, and the new PS2s are on the RS4.  The other important issue is that the wider the tyre, the more prone they are to aquaplaning - so my monster 275 PS2 boots on my RS4 should be far more prone to aquaplaning compared to the narrower 235 PS3s on the GTI - but the opposite is occuring.

I initially thought it might have been a dodgy batch of PS3s, and advised my local ATS (who I generally use, and who are owned by Michelin).  ATS initially advised me they also never heard of any aquaplaning issues.  I'm now on my second set of PS3s (different batches - I'm rather anal about checking and recording batch codes - I do the same with my oils) and they are exactly the same - and ATS are now confirming they are getting a few others who've advised them of similar aquaplaning issues - in standing water.

Personally I fully agree with michelin's own comparision:-



This is based on running PS2 and PS3's on the same car 

Marketing and statistics.  Just remember what Mark Twain said!

And do you have a link to the specific data?  I'd be interested in how deep the water was on their 'wet' tests.


Oh, and just for some balance - I don't agree with that diagram for dry handling and dry braking - I would personally state that the PS3 is noticeably better than the PS2 in those two measurements.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

^^^^ Your the only person I have heard say that Sean.

Every review I have read and my own experience say different and agree that PS3 are better especially in the wet than any of the other popular performance tyres (PS2, Sessantas, F1 Assymetric etc)

Maybe it's your driving

Maybe . . . maybe I'm unconciously aiming for puddles and standing water.  But then I'd be doing the same on the PS2-shod charriot!

I think the crucial issue of 'dispute' is the degree of wetness - on normally wet roads, ie, wet but well-drained with no standing water - I don't have any concerns.  It is only with standing water, such as puddles at edges of roads - where the PS3s are worse.

[scooba]

To be fair both 2 or 3 s are amazing tyres

[Teutonic_Tamer]

To be fair both 2 or 3 s are amazing tyres

^^^^ - yes, now that I do agree with!

[Janner_Sy]

The RS4 would has much weight to force the tyres through the water and on to the tarmac in comparison to the golf.  this would surely help??  but saying that they are wide tyres as well.....

[Teutonic_Tamer]

The RS4 would has much weight to force the tyres through the water and on to the tarmac in comparison to the golf.  this would surely help??  but saying that they are wide tyres as well.....

My GTI kerb weight = 1454kg, tyre load index 95 (for the 235s) - which makes an individual tyre max load of 690kg, giving a total tyre/vehicle capacity of 2760kg (roughly 1.85 times the kerb weight).

My RS4 kerb weight = 1755kg, tyre load index 100 (for the 275s) - which makes an individual tyre max load of 800kg, giving a total tyre/vehicle capacity of 3200kg (again, roughly 1.85 times the kerb weight).


So like I touched on earlier - the tyres are fairly balanced between the two in terms of vehicle weight vs tyre spec.  And this would still prove my opinion that the wider tyres on the RS4 will be more prone to aquaplaning.  Unless there are any other geeky formulae or calculations. . . .

[vRS Carl]

Surely the Quattro helps

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Surely the quattro helps

EDITED for correct spelling - quattro is spelt with a lower case 'q'. 

Not really, quattro only really helps with traction.  If/when a tyre aquaplanes - it won't make any difference weather said wheel is driven or not.

[vRS Carl]

Yes i know how Quattro ( ) works and also what Aquaplaning is.

The point im trying to make is thus…

The correct way to deal with aquaplaning is to hold the steering straight, don't brake or apply power, just lift your foot off the power and let the car gradually slow down until you have cleared the hazard or you are at a sufficient enough speed for tyres to effectively deal with removal of the water.

Therefore as your front wheels hit the water first (Unless your doing your own impression of Tokyo Drift) then maybe the car detects this and reduces the power to the front wheels and maintains it at the rear thus helping the car's stability and your impression of the tyre ability.

To quote Audi themselves

quattro continually adjusts to road conditions to permanently distribute power between the front and rear wheels precisely where and when required. It means the vehicle stays responsive even if only one axle has enough grip.

For you to conduct a true comparison you are going to have to have 2 sets of wheels with 2 sets of equal tread depth PS2 & PS3 and try them on the same car. Which is how any tyre test is done. You don't see EVO doing there annual tyre test on 2 different cars and then saying a tyre on a 4WD/AWD car is better than a different brand on a FWD car in the wet