Anyone fancy a trip to London……...

[RedRobin]

I dont feel that in her case she has wasted her time or money, but the people who go to uni to study photography, art, lady gaga? What the point? What are they going to use their degree for, and are they going to be making any half decent money afterwards?

If your gonna go to uni, study a proper degree, that will get you a proper job, and a proper wage.

It surely depends on what your motivated by. Education doesn't serve as a way of making money, it serves as a way of enabling people to have a career in whatever interests them. What does it matter if that makes them lots of money or not. Money isn't the route to eternal happiness you know!

....I couldn't agree more, Andrew - Money does NOT buy Happiness! 

And, Poverty, what gives you the right to decide for others what's "a proper job and a proper wage" etc?

[Top Cat]

My problem with it is, it discourages working class from further education, it shouldn't do, but it will. If we want to have any chance of keeping up with Asia over the next 10 years, then we need as many educated people as we can.  

[Hedge]

My problem with it is, it discourages working class from further education, it shouldn't do, but it will. If we want to have any chance of keeping up with Asia over the next 10 years, then we need as many educated people as we can. 

I agree with that to a point but if they continue to make the exams easier so there are more passes year on year then there is absolutely no point. By all means go to uni and get your piece of paper but if it's a meaningless piece of paper then don't bother.

[Poverty]

I dont feel that in her case she has wasted her time or money, but the people who go to uni to study photography, art, lady gaga? What the point? What are they going to use their degree for, and are they going to be making any half decent money afterwards?

If your gonna go to uni, study a proper degree, that will get you a proper job, and a proper wage.

It surely depends on what your motivated by. Education doesn't serve as a way of making money, it serves as a way of enabling people to have a career in whatever interests them. What does it matter if that makes them lots of money or not. Money isn't the route to eternal happiness you know!

....I couldn't agree more, Andrew - Money does NOT buy Happiness! 

And, Poverty, what gives you the right to decide for others what's "a proper job and a proper wage" etc?

Its not my right to decide, I just dont want to hear people moan about their uni debts afterwards, or pay for them to go through uni via my taxes

[Top Cat]

My problem with it is, it discourages working class from further education, it shouldn't do, but it will. If we want to have any chance of keeping up with Asia over the next 10 years, then we need as many educated people as we can. 

I agree with that to a point but if they continue to make the exams easier so there are more passes year on year then there is absolutely no point. By all means go to uni and get your piece of paper but if it's a meaningless piece of paper then don't bother.

I am with you on that, the whole education system seem's devalued these days. 

[stealthwolf]

27k plus 3 years living which is gonna be 10k a year i would have thought

+1. This is something people forget - they concentrate on the tuition fees but there's also living costs to consider as part of the student debt.

Students spend most of the week laid in bed because there are only a few lectures they have to attend each week.  the rest is alleged homes study.

The entire point is that is that it's meant to be self-directed learning. You have a 'skeleton' from which to develop your own studying. Otherwise it stops being university (originally designed for academia) and it just "school". Besides, not all courses would benefit. I used to have lectures pretty much everyday 9-5. Where would you have added the extra lectures? 

...more lectures during the week...cut down the time in university...

Personally, I'd say to reduce the summer holidays - three months per year was an immense amount of time to take off. Not all courses

Speaking to most of them, when you ask why their at university the reply is its for the 'student experience'.

+1 for reducing "unnecessary" degrees. There are degrees in subjects for which it'd have been better to have done apprenticeships. By making lots of mickey-mouse degrees, you decrease the value of a degree. Twenty years ago, it would have been a golden ticket. Now it's more a rite-of-passage.

My problem with it is, it discourages working class from further education, it shouldn't do, but it will

+1. I've always believed university education should be provided on the basis of academic ability, rather than financial ability. There are some very bright people who never went to university but could easily have attained 1:1.

If your gonna go to uni, study a proper degree, that will get you a proper job, and a proper wage.

As above, university was never meant to "provide a wage". You need mathematicians and physicists breaking new ground, developing new theories etc. It's how we arrived at computers. It's how we will solve various scientific problems, some of which may lead to social advancement.

Its not my right to decide, I just dont want to...pay for them to go through uni via my taxes

But people have done this for years - look at the previous generation. They all had a "free education" of the backs of taxpayers. Yet now the current generation suddenly has to pay for the same thing. IMO that's not right. But it's not right to force older generations to "back-pay" for their degrees!

[Janner_Sy]

Students spend most of the week laid in bed because there are only a few lectures they have to attend each week.  the rest is alleged homes study.

The entire point is that is that it's meant to be self-directed learning. You have a 'skeleton' from which to develop your own studying. Otherwise it stops being university (originally designed for academia) and it just "school". Besides, not all courses would benefit. I used to have lectures pretty much everyday 9-5. Where would you have added the extra lectures? 

...more lectures during the week...cut down the time in university...

Personally, I'd say to reduce the summer holidays - three months per year was an immense amount of time to take off. Not all courses

Fully agree.  Doing a degree there is a lot of self teaching that comes with the level of academia expected of you.  and that definitely shouldn't be removed., just condensed.  My course was full 9-5 lectures 5 days a week.  If anything id have said it was to condensed to the point of ridiculousness at times, the amount of extra work we had to undertake in the evenings doing design work etc meant that i was working up until midnight at least 4 nights a week.   

But as you say alot of guys would have been better off doing an apprenticeship and then an OU/work sponsored degree.  It works great for me, plus you then have a base of knowledge on the subject matter prior to arriving.  your more likely to land a job then as well.

Most employers aren't that bothered about qualifications.  One of the biggest thinks they want is experience and this is why alot of students don't end up working in the line of work that they expected when starting/choosing their degree.

[RedRobin]

I dont feel that in her case she has wasted her time or money, but the people who go to uni to study photography, art, lady gaga? What the point? What are they going to use their degree for, and are they going to be making any half decent money afterwards?

If your gonna go to uni, study a proper degree, that will get you a proper job, and a proper wage.

It surely depends on what your motivated by. Education doesn't serve as a way of making money, it serves as a way of enabling people to have a career in whatever interests them. What does it matter if that makes them lots of money or not. Money isn't the route to eternal happiness you know!

....I couldn't agree more, Andrew - Money does NOT buy Happiness! 

And, Poverty, what gives you the right to decide for others what's "a proper job and a proper wage" etc?

Its not my right to decide, I just dont want to hear people moan about their uni debts afterwards, or pay for them to go through uni via my taxes

....The moment any taxes you pay has been handed to the government, you have virtually no say in how they are spent - It's no longer your money, you've given it away, or should I say had it taken from you. The only influence you can have on how a government decides to spend its money is by your vote in a general election. So why be bothered about it or about whether moaners moan.

[Janner_Sy]

because we all hate moaners and benefit fraudsters.

[RedRobin]

My problem with it is, it discourages working class from further education, it shouldn't do, but it will. If we want to have any chance of keeping up with Asia over the next 10 years, then we need as many educated people as we can.  

....If someone is truly intelligent/bright enough it A) won't discourage them, and B) they'll succeed whether they're working class or not.

Alan Sugar isn't exactly a shining example of a great human being but he is most definitely very working class (and still is) and very 'successful' in business.

The UK stands very little chance of ever competing with Asia no matter what happens regarding university education - Fundamentally English people simply don't have the same work ethic or willingness to work as hard as Asians generally do. That's the same whether you term "Asians" as Far Eastern, Chinese, or Indian. People in this country simply aren't hungry enough.

[RedRobin]

because we all hate moaners and benefit fraudsters.

....Well I don't. Life's too short to be bothered.

If someone wants to moan that's their problem not mine if they're negative thinkers.

If someone does benefit fraud, I don't care. Surely most of us have got friends who or know people who have taken advantage of the system. The system takes advantage of you, so....

[Janner_Sy]

one word, 'Integrity'

[RedRobin]

one word, 'Integrity'

....I'm honest about my morals but perhaps my morals may be different in some areas. Different societies have different morals.