Author Topic: Bruce' black one: airbase & AutoX pics (Read 74938 times)

laurent.d · « **Reply #30 on:** February 28, 2011, 04:57:37 pm »

I just found out this thread!

Very nice car the Bruce!! The way I like them, a discreet clean OEM look from outside and a lot of performance mod's inside.

Can you tell us more about the Sachs coilover?
Do you have any idea of what it worth compare to Bilstein PSS10?

VC · « **Reply #31 on:** February 28, 2011, 05:13:56 pm »

....money shot

the bruce · « **Reply #32 on:** February 28, 2011, 05:37:56 pm »

Hello Laurent !!

Thank you.

Well, your A3 is still the example.

http://en.sachsperformance.com/sachs-race-coilover-suspensions/sportfahrwerk-audi/audi-a3/16-ab-0503/sachs-performance-gewindefahrwerk-2.html

Construction is like Bilstein B16:
single tube, upside down, gas pressure, dampers comb. adjustable (but 20 clicks)

I really like it.

Performs very well on Nordschleife. Ok, on very poor roads I wish a softer suspension.
At slalom (like Auto-X) I'd like to have it even harder. But it seems to be best of both worlds.

@ Cherry:

the fotos by the hangar were taken by a friend - a professional photographer

danishmkvgti · « **Reply #33 on:** February 28, 2011, 06:42:27 pm »

Bruce, i'll steal your attention here, PM me if you wish to go to Inters with Karsten and I on the 23th to the 28th of June

laurent.d · « **Reply #34 on:** February 28, 2011, 09:07:22 pm »

Quote from: the bruce on February 28, 2011, 05:37:56 pm

Hello Laurent !!

Thank you. Well, your A3 is still the example.

Wow!! Vielen Dank!!

Quote from: the bruce on February 28, 2011, 05:37:56 pm

http://en.sachsperformance.com/sachs-race-coilover-suspensions/sportfahrwerk-audi/audi-a3/16-ab-0503/sachs-performance-gewindefahrwerk-2.html

Construction is like Bilstein B16:
single tube, upside down, gas pressure, dampers comb. adjustable (but 20 clicks)

I really like it.
Performs very well on Nordschleife. Ok, on very poor roads I wish a softer suspension.
At slalom (like Auto-X) I'd like to have it even harder. But it seems to be best of both worlds.

They look suspiciously like Bilstein PSS10...
May be like H&R Coilover they use Bilstein internal. Or Bilstein use Sachs ones...

Do you have linear or progressive springs?

I'm planning to replace progressive springs of my Bilstein by linear ones and to rebuild the damper inside in order to improve right and left balance.
Bilstein building tolerence between dampers is 15% Öhlins is about 5% the workshop I use to go can build them at 3%.

rex · « **Reply #35 on:** February 28, 2011, 10:02:15 pm »

Fuscobal, a guy from this forum tested the Sachs coilover. He had B16, had a little accident where one spring was replaced and in this time tested the Sachs suspension. He went with it at Hungaroring. After the B16 spring came, he went back to B16. His review says that Sachs is nowhere near B16 (at least for the Track). The Sachs suspension is softer, much softer than the B16. He had wheels rub with a medium setup something that never happen with B16.

laurent.d · « **Reply #36 on:** February 28, 2011, 10:36:07 pm »

Thanks rex for this information.

the bruce · « **Reply #37 on:** February 28, 2011, 10:52:52 pm »

Sachs manufactures their own dampers (they are OEM supplier for Volkswagen
and others and make dampers for Ferrari F1 and McLaren). I believe they buy
their springs from Eibach.
These springs have some progression. I was thinking of other racing springs
as well. I know a A3 owner with Sachs Performance who has bought some stiffer
custom made springs from Eibach.

Rex, I'm wondering about this. When I adjust the dampers to 15 of 20 clicks it's too
hard for my taste on the Nürburgring Nordschleife. Even in the middle of the range
it's very hard on country roads. It's much stiffer than OEM or the very popular H&R
monotube coilovers. But I never had the B16 in my car.
Maybe the situation is little different because of my verx stiff 28/24 mm sway bars.

Nevertheless I like the Bilstein suspensions as well. We have a B12 kit in our G4 TDI.

Don't misunderstand me, I don't want to say Sachs is the one and only and I don't
know the B16 on the Mk.V GTI, but this seems a bit strange to me.

laurent.d · « **Reply #38 on:** February 28, 2011, 11:08:35 pm »

Fuscobal car is also very heavy because of his sound system.

You are right Bruce, Stock suspension on my car were Sachs ones.

I have PSS10 set on 8/9 at the Ring some 28/24 H&R sway bars set on hard front and rear and I have also some rubbing at the ring.

Any way! The Bruce, can you compare your Sachs to your Golf 4 TDI Bilstein B12.
As B12 are juste B8 provided with Bilstein (made by H&R) springs and that I had B8 on my car before, it will give me an idea.

rex · « **Reply #39 on:** March 01, 2011, 07:46:48 am »

Don't get me wrong, Sachs Performance is better for road use than B16 (according to Fuscobal' review). But for track use it is just not hard enough.
On Nring I use 8-9 setup for B16. I have 26/24 hard/hard H&R ARB setup, but I fitted this only after Nring
Fuscobal has 26mm H&R front and 27mm BSH back (soft/soft) setup.
I will try to translate the review that Fuscobal had about Sachs:

"Monday (9th of August) I had the chance to test the new adjustable Sachs racing coilovers on Hungaroring (without my will). A week before this event I hit a pot hole which affected my front B16 springs and because I could not wait for the springs to arrive I borrowed this Sachs suspension (it was new). The Sachs Coilovers has a built quality similar to B16/PSS10 and you can tune it in more ways (20 settings apposed to 10 for PSS10). I got to test the suspension at Hungaroring and on the 1000 mile to and from Hungaroring. Conclusions:

1) On the road
- Sachs (set to 10/20 front and back) is much more refined and it deals better with the bumps in our roads. I was really surprised by the comfort of this suspension even with the big rims and small tire wall (BBS RS-GT 19 inch, 235x35)
- Steering responsiveness is almost as good as B16.

2) On the track
- Sachs (set to 15/20 front and 10/20 back) was decent for a suspension with progressive springs but not at the level of B16
- Although the setup was 15/20 and the suspension was almost as high as possible (could be lowered another 5-6cm), the wheels would rub in the fender on some corners where heavy braking was followed by a sharp turn (one of the causes is that my car is 170kg heavier than a stock GTI because of the sound system)

Final conclusion: Sachs Coilover is a very good suspension for bumpy roads with a sport behavior and with a far better roll characteristics over the stock GTI suspension. For the people that drive mostly in the city and once a while fast road I think this suspension is better that the B16. For the people that visit the track frequently and need every last drop of performance, B16 is for sure the better choice."

laurent.d · « **Reply #40 on:** March 01, 2011, 10:10:49 am »

Tanks rex for those further informations. It's a pity for us He didn't try to set them on 16/18. Any way, it seems indeed, that Sachs are a bit softer than Bilstein.
And then may be being too soft for an heavier car or Auto X runs compare to Bilstein.

the bruce · « **Reply #41 on:** March 01, 2011, 03:09:13 pm »

Thank you, Rex. Comparison of this kind are sadly rare.

Would be great to read more of this.

I'd suggest adjusting the rear dampers to '15' minimum with 170 kg
in the trunk if on track.
Maybe we will make a comparison with Sachs and Bilstein by our own
this summer at the Ring.

As well important: the tires. As you know I use Federal 595 RS-R.
With road tires you need less stiffness, with true semi slicks you need
more.

ps:
The G4 B12 is much softer than the G5 Sachs !
A drove a friend's ED30 with B6 several times as well, much softer again.