Better brakes for a tracked 1.4 TFSI

[rex]

Hi everyone. I am writing my problem here because I think it is better here than on "Members ride" topic.

So, the problem is I need better brakes. I saw that a lot of people on this forum know a lot about brakes so, any advise is welcomed (more than welcomed).
I will tell you what my brakes are, what I would like them to be and the budget at my disposal... Please bear with me because this will be a long story...

First of all, the brakes on the car are GTI front and rear brakes. I had smaller brakes as stock but upgraded to the GTI ones. I have stock and DS2500 pads for these.
I sometimes take my car to track days (Hungaroring and Nurburgring) and I need better brakes because of these track days. I know that the brakes are quite weak on my car so I am not pushing them very hard. When I am pushing hard I don't like the stopping power or the fade.
The new brakes should be better than the old ones, cheap to buy and cheap to maintain. Also if I could keep the 16 inch alloys that I have for winter, that is a plus.
Please remember that my car has 155 bhp and weighs 1270 kg stock, without taking the spare wheel out or other bits and pieces.

The minimum modifications that I am willing to make are to keep the GTI brakes but update it a little bit. I am thinking of Tarox F2000 disks for the front, Hel brake lines, Motul 660 brake liquid. This will set me back around 500 EURO. This would be great from the financial point of view but I would still have concerns for use on the track.

The maximum I would do is to buy a APRacing 330mm disc 4 pot brake kit. This will set me back 1700 EURO. I have the money but I would not like to spend so much on the brakes since I have some other style mods in mind for the next period. Also I would have to sell my 16 inch winter tires. This new kit would barely fit my new OEM Goal rims (I checked for clearance and I have about 1mm), so I would need to buy spacers.
I am also thinking that this kit might be an overkill for my car.

So, the real problem is to find a solution between the two above, in performance and also in cost.

I've seen DaveB's  kits and they might have been a solution but, as I understand he retired. Do you guys know if the Porsche Cayman calipers for 312mm disc fit behind 16 inch wheels? Any news when a similar kit will be available?

Another solution is the S3/Cupra/R32 front brakes. This kit would fit between the above 2 but I would not consider this kit because of the weight. If I were to fit this kit I would lose a lot of horses at the wheel. And than I would not have any real benefit. Beside it also requires a 17 inch wheel.

I've read most of the brake topics on this forum and if you have any other information/ advise please share it with me.
Thanks!

[danishmkvgti]

I have the R32 front and rear setup with Ferodo DS2500 in front, and while it brakes well and i had no trouble at the ring by taking 2 laps at a time it is heavy and prone to overheating on normal track days. I really like the RS6 6 piston front calipers as the ones Illetronik has fitted to his car, but they are not matched to the mk V's brake system (Cue DaveB1970) and the do require spacers for OEM whell spec rims to be fitted.
So i have gone for Hurdy's Tarox 10pots, which are built to the Mk V's other brake parts and due to the many pots are more shallow and enables to use the OEM specced Rims. The discs that Hurdy used are 330mm but with the right adaptors the caliper are able to run 350mm Discs.  

http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,7823.150.html

[rex]

Thanks for the reply. I talked to Tarox and their prices are bigger than APRacing (a kit is ~ 2000 EURO).
I also found out that they do custom floating disks 312x25 but they cost 600 EURO per pair.
They are also willing to sell calipers and brackets for the OEM disks but they cost 500 EURO per caliper. So, instead I think that it might be better to go with APRacing since it is less expensive.

I only do one lap of Nurburgring and than wait for the brakes to cool. And on that lap I am not really putting any pressure on the brakes as you might have noticed from my video (very early braking).

And I forgot to mention, the minimum rim size must be at least 17inch (even better if it is 16).

[danishmkvgti]

The Tarox do clear 17" to my knowledge. And Hurdy was selling them to me as charity i think 
Anyway i'm looking forward to getting them fitted 

[rex]

I bet you are  .
I guess I joined this community to late to take advantage of the bargains around here  

[the bruce]

No doubt, the big brake kits from Tarox, Brembo, AP and Movit are far better,
but in your case I'd go for the slotted F2000 discs with DS2500 oder Pagid blue.

Keep in mind your GT is rel. lightweight and with 150 HP not as quick as many
Edition 30 with 300 HP or even more.

Very important and cost effective: take care to improve brake ventilation. 

 

[rex]

Thanks for the advice. 

Tarox are quite ok in spec but too expensive. Brembo makes a kit for 288 and 312mm front disks but it costs 1500 EURO so the difference is too small compared to AP Racing (and they are made by the same company). Movit requires a generous rim (I think you call this X Factor - for wheels that can accompany big brakes) and will not fit the OEM GTI rims unless using a 7mm spacer, for example (so I would require a similar spacer for my rims).
This is why from all these 4 firms I would go with APRacing (if I didn't have anything else to do with the money). Plus, all the really serious cars I saw at Nurburgring had APRacing brakes  .

If I do not find a better way I will stick to changing the disks, brake lines and brake liquid.
As you said I have a rel lightweight and underpowered car. I will make it lighter still by removing the spare wheel, jack and accessories and the back seat (also because I will carry the semislicks in the back).

[DaveB@Vagbremtechnic]

Have a read of this, only the most viewed thread on the forum   

http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,13985.0.html

There is an alternative to whats been mentioned already just requires a little effort......

[rex]

Thanks DaveB  . I think that was the first tread I read on this forum.
But as I understand you retired. Any chance of you making another kit in the future?

[DaveB@Vagbremtechnic]

Ive got some fitting kits left , (Bolts/Brackets/Hoses)

And I've been having people send the calipers directly to my painter who disassembles/reverses them and takes them to be machined , he then paints them brings them to my house to my clean area for reassembly.

He was whingeing about lack of work and the new arrangement works, he now gets paid when the stuff gets ready to ship so turnaround times are if anything better than before!

He does a very good R32 refurb at reasonable money.....the only problem is he doesnt know one end of a laptop from the other, offering to pay via paypal is like offering Icelandic Krona!!!

So Im helping him help me

[rex]

PM sent

[rex]

Guys,
I guess that with the BBK, the discs cost double in comparison with the OEM GTI/R32 discs. Is that correct?
If I buy a kit from APRacing (for example) the disks that the BBK comes with can only be replaced with APRacing?

What about the pads? DS2500 for example costs the about the same no matter if it's for BBK or for stock calipers?

Thanks

[rex]

So guys, I finally went for DaveB's nqsbbk.
If it stops as it looks it is a great piece of kit.







Thanks for all your thoughts.

[scooba]

Very nice .