Is there anyone has gone Stg2/2+ and wished they had not?

[rich83]

If i was to buy a K03 TFSi again, i dont think id take it to stage 2+ again either, i would however look at just adding a K04 turbo with a custom map.  Its a much cheaper way of achieving 280-300hp on this engine than staying with the K03 and adding the intake, exhaust, intercooler, fuel pump etc.

....The total cost of a K03 to K04 conversion with all necessary parts and map will surely be more than adding an intake, TBE exhaust, intercooler, fuel pump (even an APR).

For a start, when converting a K03 to K04 you would need a TBE exhaust, HPFP, and probably intercooler, anyway. I think you made a mistake there, Sy.

Only OEM ed30 part though, of which most are the same as the GTI anyway.

[RedRobin]

^^^^
I reckon that it would still be more expensive without those OEM parts, Rich.

[rich83]

To stage 2+ a GTI...

TBE  £1000
APR HPFP £800
Intercooler ~£500
REVO Stage 2 software ~£600

Total =£2900

[RedRobin]

To stage 2+ a GTI...

TBE  £1000
APR HPFP £800
Intercooler ~£500
REVO Stage 2 software ~£600

Total = £2900

K03 to K04 conversion (by JKM) = £4600

That's doing it properly.  http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/tsiK04conversion.htm

What's Awesome's APR price?

[rich83]

• REVO 2.0 TSI K04 Turbocharger.
• REVO Software for the K04 Turbocharger / 2.0 TSI.
• EVOMS 2.0 TSI Intake System. Not needed
• Audi S3 intercooler and required pipe work. Not really needed
• Milltek Hi Flow Cat and Downpipe (Audi S3 item used)  Not needed, standard exhaust will be ok for 300bhp
• Milltek Cat Back Non Resonated Exhaust System.  Not needed
• Torque Arm insert.  Not needed
• Before and After Dyno Dynamics Rolling Road Power run tests!
• Substantial Road tesing and Data logging.
• All Labour for a complete Standard car drive in, K04 conversion car drive out.

Thats for the TSI engine robin... not the TFSI

[E30Dom]

To stage 2+ a GTI...

TBE  £1000
APR HPFP £800
Intercooler ~£500
REVO Stage 2 software ~£600

Total =£2900

Or

DP(2nd hand) £300
Exhaust(ex display :) ) £350
HPFP (2nd hand 700miles) £460
EVOMS(new) £300
Intercooler(new) £260

£1670 :)

[RedRobin]

To stage 2+ a GTI...

TBE  £1000
APR HPFP £800
Intercooler ~£500
REVO Stage 2 software ~£600

Total =£2900

Or

DP (2nd hand) £300
Exhaust (ex display :) ) £350
HPFP (2nd hand 700miles) £460
EVOMS (new) £300
Intercooler (new) £260

£1670 :)

....Be fair, Dom - Compare new prices with new prices.

What about injectors needed for K04 on a K03 car.

Even back in 2009(?) when I replaced my K03 (with a newer K03) the K04 conversion cost was ~£3,500.

There's more to it than just spannering on a bigger turbo....  Unless you want problems further down the road.

[Janner_Sy]

If i was to buy a K03 TFSi again, i dont think id take it to stage 2+ again either, i would however look at just adding a K04 turbo with a custom map.  Its a much cheaper way of achieving 280-300hp on this engine than staying with the K03 and adding the intake, exhaust, intercooler, fuel pump etc.

....The total cost of a K03 to K04 conversion with all necessary parts and map will surely be more than adding an intake, TBE exhaust, intercooler, fuel pump (even an APR).

For a start, when converting a K03 to K04 you would need a TBE exhaust, HPFP, and probably intercooler, anyway. I think you made a mistake there, Sy.

I think the mistake is on your side Robin    

Think about a stock Ed30.  What differs between that and a stock K03?... its only the K04 Turbo, relocated DV and S3 injectors (thats ignoring any internal differences such as cams/pistons).  The exhaust, intercooler, HPFP and intake are IDENTICAL.  

So if a stage 1 K04 TFSI is approx 280-300hp whilst still utilizing the STOCK exhaust, STOCK Intake, STOCK intercooler and STOCK high pressure fuel pump then please tell me why that cant be applied to a KO3 engine with the same KO4 turbo attached and also please tell me why you MUST Have an exhaust the moment you install a KO4?

As said before since the exhaust, fuel pump, intake and intercooler are identical on a KO4 and KO3 engine, if you were to merely bolt the following onto a KO3 TFSIengine you would effectively have a stage 1 Ed30 setup(barring any internal difference in compression/cams etc):

KO4 Turbo £700
DV relocation £50
S3 Injectors £100

So actually the total cost for 280-300hp doing the above method would be £1350 and as you say, a K03 setup in order to return approx 280hp needs about £3000 being thrown at it.  And which will be the most highly stretched

 

YOur getting confused as to what the comparison relates to.

A stage 3 K04 Converted setup on a 2.0TFSI K03 based engine is th equivalent of a stage 2+ K04 TFSI engine.

What im talking about is making the K03 TFSI engine the same specification as a stage 1 Ed30.  And we both know a stage 2+ KO3 is roughly the same output as a stage 1 K04

Also, i know someone who has this done to their vRS, so i know its possible  

[RedRobin]

^^^^
Thanks, Sy - That explains it all very well  

I guess that my thinking that it would be very limiting having a remap without also a TBE exhaust led to my conclusions. Surely you need a remap when you go from K03 to K04?

I remember all the debate about the internal/strength differences between the Ed30 and the Mk5 GTI when the Ed30 became available. To this day, I'm not sure that anyone really knows for certain everything that VW did. Being somewhat cautious about the extent to which I modify my K03 GTI, I step back from either Stage 2+ software or a K04 conversion.

[GrayMK5GTI]

Standard injectors (K03 engine) can flow 300bhp so all you really need for 300bhp is:

- k04 turbo
- discharge pipe
- DV relocation
- downpipe & Sports Cat (for a JKM 300bhp)
- custom remap
 

[RedRobin]

^^^^
Even with a Quaife diff I'm happy with ~270 bhp and smooth dyno plots. I hate wheelspin. I also prefer some headroom in the tolerance limits for reliability. So 300 bhp is not for me in this car. I like the slightly livelier K03 turbo too. ETTO 

[GrayMK5GTI]

^^^^
Even with a Quaife diff I'm happy with ~270 bhp and smooth dyno plots. I hate wheelspin. I also prefer some headroom in the tolerance limits for reliability. So 300 bhp is not for me in this car. I like the slightly livelier K03 turbo too. ETTO 

Mine with only stage 1 is so lively it can spin the wheels in 2nd & third in the dry, when I drove an S3 (K04) it felt very sluggish low down in comparison.

The K03 is a very flexible turbo and is probably what got the GTI it's reputation for being so lag free 

[berg]

What transmission woes have you been having? Is it the aggressive B9 doing it with the high T6 giving alot of torque all at once?

I was thinking bout dropping to stage 1 and buying a track day car with proceeds of the APR pump, exhaust, Unibrace and keeping it as a daily, but then I drove it and thought wow this is a fun daily hack, why change it... And because i've uprated the clutch it seems a waste not to use the full potential... and if I ever sell it would have to be as a whole...(offers of £9750+)

Kinda wished I stayed at stage 1 and did the suspension, but then again I wouldn't have uprated the brakes probably, but so glad I did, cos they are awesome, aspire so much more confidence and look ace... and now stage 2+ is certainly showing the suspension needs work... nothing coilovers/ARB's and poly bushes won;t sort  ;)

gearbox and dmf killed = torque killed them. Already had Sachs clutch in with the Wavetrac and the clutch was fine and Steve put it back in.

[bacillus]

iirc if you already have revo installed, the software from stage 2/2+ K03 to k04 is £100.

[Janner_Sy]

^^^^
Thanks, Sy - That explains it all very well  

I guess that my thinking that it would be very limiting having a remap without also a TBE exhaust led to my conclusions. Surely you need a remap when you go from K03 to K04?

A remap will 100 % need to be installed, but it wouldnt be an off the shelf setup like APR or REVO as they dont cater for this.  It would need to be a bespoke custom setup.

Regarding it being limiting.  It depends what your after.  Would you say a stage 1 Ed30 is limited in its performance?

I think 300hp is more than enough in a FWD car so adding the exhaust/intake etc as well as the K04 turbo you will end up with  damn site more than 300hp and also with a much larger dent in the wallet.  

The reason i posted this is because the OP started his first post asking if stage 2+ was a step to far for some people.  I had mine at stage 2+ and in hindsight i think id have preferred to go the route i've mentioned in earlier.  Same power, less cost and with less stress and strain on the fueling system and the turbo.

at the end of the day a K04 turbo at 300Hp is a damn site less stressed than a 280Hp K03 turbo, the much more headroom with the S3 injectors and there is much less of a heat soak problem.