Want a BBK for a Golf MK5 ED30 stage 2 (352bhp) without spacers?

[rd071174]

Good morning,

I am new here and already found a lot of useful information for my Golf GTI MK5 ED30 stage2 (JD engineering, 352bhp). A few days ago the dealer tried to install a BBK Brembo kit (330x28mm, 4-pot) on the GTI. I was told that the kit was straight bold on without any modifications. But that wasn’t the case; I have to use a big spacer for my 18inch Pescara wheel (=BBS CH wheel, ET50). That is something I really don’t want to use.

So can anybody give some advice about what would be a good upgrade for my GTI without any spacers on a 18inch Pescara wheel. I have read some advise here about AP racing or VWracing. But here in the Netherlands I can’t find a got dealer for the correct advise.

I am not looking for a set for track days, but more something I can use on a day to day base without a lot of noise from the brakes. Hope someone can give me some tips and a good dealer in England where I can order the BBK!

Thank you,

Ronald

[DaveB@Vagbremtechnic]

Nothing fits behind a pescara with no spacers not off the shelf anyway, the VWR Kit has a 10mm spacer built into the bell which is there whether you like it or not. The only thing that definetely does work is a custom buried 28mm wide disc which is very recessed using a fairly skinny AP Racing caliper.

Other than that with it being a 7.5" rim your fairly limited really.

Also consider a B5 RS4 setup 360mm discs and plenty of power, looks and stops well but its an OEM solution so quiet with good manners and it wont show you up on a track day. Not as sexy as VWR but nowhere near the ridiculous price tag either

[theo]

Hi Ronald,

With regards to the VWR BBK on the edition 30 with Pescara's you will need the kit with the spaced bell.

http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,26855.15.html

If you look at reply #21 that is the VWR with spaced bell running on my Ed30 with Pescaras. A couple of posts above, MatED30 is running the same kit without spacers but on the Team Dynamics Pro Race 1.2 wheels. If you want a decent sized BBK on the Pescaras I think spacers will be a must. The other option is to look at changing your wheels.

It might also pay to have a read of this thread http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,13985.0.html

It probably isnt what you want but gives you some food for thought.

I know Dave is currently working on a kit for the AP 5200 Caliper that a few people bought off e-bay. This might fit behind the Pescaras. We shal see.

[rd071174]

Thank you for the quick response!

I was looking at the VWR kit, but as you said they built a spacer into the bell of the disc. So I only have a few options, correct me if I am wrong:

1. A custom buried 28mm wide disc which is very recessed using a fairly skinny AP Racing caliper.
2. A B5 RS4 setup 360mm discs and plenty of power, looks and stops well but it’s an OEM solution so quiet with good manners and it won’t show you up on a track day.
3. A R32/S3 upgrade, disc plus caliper?

Where can I find a B5 RS4 setup? The Audi dealer? That is also a disc plus caliper solution and what type of caliper (1-pot, 4-pot?)?
The BBK brembo kit cost me 1735,- Euro incl vat and 5 hours of labor, and that is another 320,-Euro. I sent the BBK brembo kit back to the dealer and got my money back, but at the end I still need a good BBK for the GTI.

Theo,

Thank you also for your quick response!
The treads you mentioned I have read them and gave me some good information. The AP 5200 Caliper kit Dave is working on, is probably the thing I am looking for. But I have to find the parts myself and I don't know if that is easy job, probably not.

[MAT ED30]

Dave you are wrong vwr will supply you with a bell with the spacer or without it just ask them or they can even supply you with both bells if you want  

[rd071174]

At the AP Racing site they recommend the following kit for a MK5 GTI:

http://www.apracing.com/info/products.asp?product=%3Cimg+border%3D%222%22+src%3D%22http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eapracing%2Ecom%2Fpics%2Fproductpics%2Fvw%2Dlogo%2Ejpg%22%2F%3E%2D+Golf+MK5+GTi+%26+TDi+%2D+Front+4+Piston+Kit+CP5200%2D1056+_1728_1064

Does anybody know if this will fit on the MK5 GTI ED30 without a spacer with 18inch Pescara’s? Because I can order the kit here in the Netherlands instead of the VWRacing kit that is not available here in the Netherlands.

[Hurdy]

Dave, My Tarox BBK kit fitted without spacers

[tony_danza]

At the AP Racing site they recommend the following kit for a MK5 GTI:

http://www.apracing.com/info/products.asp?product=%3Cimg+border%3D%222%22+src%3D%22http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eapracing%2Ecom%2Fpics%2Fproductpics%2Fvw%2Dlogo%2Ejpg%22%2F%3E%2D+Golf+MK5+GTi+%26+TDi+%2D+Front+4+Piston+Kit+CP5200%2D1056+_1728_1064

Does anybody know if this will fit on the MK5 GTI ED30 without a spacer with 18inch Pescara’s? Because I can order the kit here in the Netherlands instead of the VWRacing kit that is not available here in the Netherlands.

Not suitable for the power you have, but they don't require spacers iirc.

Have you thought about using the BBS CHs found on Audis with the ET44 offset?? They'll still look the same as your ED30 wheels, but allow more room for brakes.

VW Racing have sent kits out to many forum members in other countries. France, Czechoslovakia and a few more. Just call them and order them 

[scooba]

Hi, have you considered a set of S3/R32 brakes ,There is a good choice off pads around as well as disks ,there are lots available on here for sale ,cheap and bolt straight on behind the pescaras, down side they are a little heavy but if you have 300+ bhp shouldnt be that much off a issue .
What do you use the car for most of the time ,if its your daily drive S3/R32 should be ok ,if you are going to track it then you will need something a bit more £.

Daveb will give you some very good options, I think it will come down to money at the end off the day ,Possibly a change off wheels and tyres plus brake kit starts getting expensive ,You can obviously sell your stock parts to off set the cost 

[rd071174]

Dave, My Tarox BBK kit fitted without spacers

Hurdy, The Tarox BBK kit fitted on your ED30 was that with a standaard OEM 18inch wheel with ET50 offset or....?
The Tarox kit is a very good uption, but really expensive. They start at a price of 2450,- Euro for 320x26mm 6-pots, so than I can probably better buy the VWRacing kit.

[DaveB@Vagbremtechnic]

Dave you are wrong vwr will supply you with a bell with the spacer or without it just ask them or they can even supply you with both bells if you want  

My Bad Matt....

Does the kit with bells without spacers fit behind a Pescara with no spacer? No? Are they still hanging the weight of the car of the wheel bolts? 

Thats probably a bit more relevant to the OP's question than my knowledge of brakes.....

And indeed Hurdy forgot about the Tarox offering, Cant help think that if they did a normal 6 piston caliper with a little less in your face branding they would be onto a winner notwithstanding that they're well regarded by the people who fit them and I remember that vid you did around Spa iirc and you weren't exactly hanging about so credit where its dues

If you want a OEM red B5 RS4 setup PM me got one and a fitting kit for buttons (they dont fetch a lot of money) would be 25 quid to get it to the Netherlands, you could buy discs and pads at home from an audi dealer to make things easy.

You can also buy the FULL range of Pagid RS pads for the RS4 setup which makes the odd track day doable without worry. Top Cat on here had some good fun at Oulton Park with the B5 RS4 setup with some Pagid Orange RS4-4's

The calipers are two pot

Or as somebody said change your wheels to BBS VZ's pretty much Identical but do away with the need for a 10mm spacer pretty much.

You'll achieve getting away with a 10mm spacer in a number of ways when designing a BBK, by using a 28mm disc you move the disc centre inboard by 2mm, by using a caliper with a skinny pad this means that the pistons dont need to be as tall hence a skinny caliper casting. By going custom you can move the disc inside face nearer the bottom ball joint by 3mm, by adding all these gains together you come up with something that fits.

A 330mm setup would be effective for you r car with 350BHP, compare to a 996 Carrera 2 with similar power that use a 318x28mm disc on a four pot setup thats heavier than your edition 30 and brakes very well.

Im also not aware if you have spent a lot of money on suspension but you will be looking at a difference of 4kg or so on the rotors alone between a 28mm wide disc and a 32mm wide disc at 350mm+

That said the RS4 stuff is quite heavy but will give you a lot of money left over, you'll be faster with heavy capable brakes on KW V3's than an aftermarket BBK on stock suspension. My point being spend the money you save on dinner with the girlfriend and suspension rather than 4/6 pots that you're struggling to make fit if you're defeinetely anti spacers and want to keep the provenance of pescaras on your eddy

[MAT ED30]

my bells without the spacer lets you use a spigot ring on the back of the wheel if needed,but i know theo runs the spacer versions and has plenty of clearance on all his wheels but you cant call it a spacer can you as its a complete part   they do the job for me mate and to be honest i cant say anything bad about em as i have done over 15k on em now and the pads still look new and the discs have not even been touched   and i dont hang about

[Poppa Dom]

Once again very pertinent input from Dave - we're lucky to have him here  Dave - the brakes are absolutely fantastic, a well informed choice that performs well across all situations. Had no issues at all, reasonable pad wear, no noise., OEM feel and great progressive stopping power.

[jabbalad]

Dave you are wrong vwr will supply you with a bell with the spacer or without it just ask them or they can even supply you with both bells if you want  

My Bad Matt....

Does the kit with bells without spacers fit behind a Pescara with no spacer? No? Are they still hanging the weight of the car of the wheel bolts? 

Not this again..... 

VWR/Caparo developed the spigot adaptor on my car do and have been sending out spigot adaptors for the kits with in built spacers for the past 9months... (just like what people use on race cars for when they have to use big spacers )
If you had looked at a VWR kit in person you would know this 

Since the new disks have been on i have had absolutely no problems with the brakes what so ever, before you start claiming that the kit turns to mush! (the problem was to do with the extra heat generated from the DS3000 pads if you would like to know) but Caparo were very helpful in having the casting materials changed to compensate for this and its been fine ever since.... pretty good customer service if you ask me!

Lets drop the VWR/Caparo kit slagging off now please, it doesnt help anyone! 

[DaveB@Vagbremtechnic]

Jabba

No axe to grind either way, please dont take a single sentence followed by a winky smiley and turn it into 3 paragraphs and then say "oh not his again"

My issue way way way back then was the fact that the kit was being developed on customers cars by customers who had payed a lot of money for the priviledge.....if you're telling me they're now sorted then happy days Im sure they can sell at vast margin all they can get their hands on.

I have seen a kit up close and tbh they look like they've copied the Revo ones...........

They've a massive way to go before they provide the quality that the Project Mu Brakes had, massive own goal in swapping from them to the Lockheed calipers they use now. I do know a little bit about this as I conversed with Chris Witter who was the Project Mu rep for Uk/EU before working for Ohlins. It was down to Margin and trade restrictions with Taiwan and in effect how duty was doubled after the original VWR brakes had to come through Australia.

They'd have been better off charging 2.5k for those and building on the reputation they were getting, there was only 10 or so sets of Project Mu setups sold despite promises of more and insistences of exclusivity. It seems anybody can brand the lockheed calipers now

I didn't know about the casting issues on the early discs

But whatevers said they STILL wont fit behind a pescara without some spacers or (spacing on the bell) which brings me nicely back onto topic