fast road pads

[QD MBE]

No. Example:
A Porsche compound is legal on a Porsche, not on a Ford and vice versa.

With the AP BBK the GTI is a different car. AP approved this pad with their kit.
Ferodo sadly never approved the DS2500 for any car and so not for the GTI
as well.

But surely it is the compound that is approved?

The DS2500 compound is the same on a  Porsche shaped pad, which is the same on a VW shaped pad, and if the compond is not EU reg90 approved, it does not matter what shape or application it is for?

Just intriqued, as it does not make sense to me.

[RedRobin]

Interested to hear why the same compound brake pad (Same maunfacturer - same constituents - different backing plate shape) is apparently road legal in one application (AP) and not in the other (OEM GTI) application.  Surely it is the Pad compound that is Road legal or not?

I think one of the parties - either Ferodo or AP (I presume AP gave you the information RR) is telling porkies.

 

No. Example:
A Porsche compound is legal on a Porsche, not on a Ford and vice versa.

With the AP BBK the GTI is a different car. AP approved this pad with their kit.
Ferodo sadly never approved the DS2500 for any car and so not for the GTI
as well.

....We've had this discussion before, QD.

[QD MBE]

Interested to hear why the same compound brake pad (Same maunfacturer - same constituents - different backing plate shape) is apparently road legal in one application (AP) and not in the other (OEM GTI) application.  Surely it is the Pad compound that is Road legal or not?

I think one of the parties - either Ferodo or AP (I presume AP gave you the information RR) is telling porkies.

 

No. Example:
A Porsche compound is legal on a Porsche, not on a Ford and vice versa.

With the AP BBK the GTI is a different car. AP approved this pad with their kit.
Ferodo sadly never approved the DS2500 for any car and so not for the GTI
as well.

....We've had this discussion before, QD.

Beg to differ RR, is that WE as in the Royal WE?  Because I certainly have not previously had the discussion. 

I was just offering a reasoned common sense thought on the matter.  Whichever caliper the DS2500 slots into, it is not road legal, unless AP have spent £'s in independent testing..........

A murky grey area one suspects..............but Ferodo state that they are not for road use, what authority do AP have to countermand that?  if it was me I would like it I writing from AP.

[the bruce]

Every car manufacturer approves a specific compound for an specific car type.
Aftermarket pads according to this OEM specification are marked ''ECE R90''.

If AP says they have several pads including the DS2500 they must have made
some kind of approval for them, but specific to this brake kit on specific cars.


ps:

''ECE R90'' is a real joke. Friction has just to be within +/- 10 %. An easy task
even for most semi-racing pads.

[RedRobin]

Beg to differ RR, is that WE as in the Royal WE?  Because I certainly have not previously had the discussion. 

I was just offering a reasoned common sense thought on the matter.  Whichever caliper the DS2500 slots into, it is not road legal, unless AP have spent £'s in independent testing..........

A murky grey area one suspects..............but Ferodo state that they are not for road use, what authority do AP have to countermand that?  if it was me I would like it I writing from AP.

....I think you'll find that any statement from Ferodo is covering their arses for the cases where Joe Bloggs decides to mod his car by using DS2500's on an untested for DS2500 OEM brake kit. AP Racing's assurances to myself is good enough for me. They do know what they're talking about when it comes to automotive brakes.

Sorry if it wasn't you who had this discussion before but it has definitely already been discussed and the question answered on this forum.

[rich83]

http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=12777.10

[QD MBE]

Beg to differ RR, is that WE as in the Royal WE?  Because I certainly have not previously had the discussion. 

I was just offering a reasoned common sense thought on the matter.  Whichever caliper the DS2500 slots into, it is not road legal, unless AP have spent £'s in independent testing..........

A murky grey area one suspects..............but Ferodo state that they are not for road use, what authority do AP have to countermand that?  if it was me I would like it I writing from AP.

. They do know what they're talking about when it comes to automotive brakes.

One would hope so.........

[QD MBE]

http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=12777.10

Thanks richwig, and here too

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=164202

[QD MBE]

http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=12777.10

Thanks richwig, and here too

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=164202

Meat on the bones, I am intrigued by it all.  Are Pagid RS29 legal - straight question..........

http://www.roadhouse.es/r90_en.htm

[RedRobin]

http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=12777.10

^ Reply #37.

Thanks, Rich  

[rich83]

No problem Robin.

The only reason why i can think that pads such as the DS2500 are not legal in standard brakes is that "they" might think that the extra forces on the caliper would exceed its limitations.

Totally bizarre if you ask me. Also what about cars that come with Brembo 4/6 pots, can you use DS2500 in them?

[QD MBE]

Not sure a post on a forum would do it for me............

Hoever I can see the sense in the post below.  it would seem the problem lies in the +/- 15%.   the '-' is there for good reason so shyte pads don't make their way onto open market, not entirely sure why the + is there.  

I guess DS2500 probably are in excess of 15% better than OE datum pad, hence no Reg90 pass.

I have posted on this several times before.. searchy will find it.
Yes DS2500's are performance pads, classed as Race on the box.
Reg90 is a bullsh*t reg from EU, meant to stop poor performing pads from being sold as equivalents to OE spec... which makes sense.  What they did was apply a 15% of OE fircition coefficient, but then cocked it up by not just making it within 15% of OE on the negative side, but made it +/-15% of OE.  this then makes "BETTER" performing pads outside of reg 90 because they perform better.

functionally they work far better than stock, and this is why so many people want to run them.
If you were concerned about the pad in the event of a serious (fatal) road crash, then  I can imagine the scenario of the car being taken to bits to determin the cause.  Too good a brake pad would'nt likely be one of them, nor identifying every component on the car against every standard around.  the only identifyer on the pads is the printing on the back of the pads, which is only printed on.... and can wear off. :rolleyes:  with nothing printed or legible on the pad, determining the make, let alone the model & spec would seem impossible.  Crash test investigation would confirm they were "working" and had sufficient pad material.

you can hypothosise as much as you like as to "what if", and would'nt likely ever leave the house as a consequence.

Reality is the pads perform superbly, stop far better than OE, which when Oe fade in hard use, and DS2500's dont, then the DS2500's would be the safer pads to run.

MOT brake testing takes no account of brake materials fitted to the cars, only that they work sufficiently well, which is the important aspect obviously.

[RedRobin]

Not sure a post on a forum would do it for me............

....Agreed but I also have had conversation with both AP and my insurer.

Someone posting on a forum the suggestion that AP are telling porkies doesn't do it for me either.

[rich83]

I dont think AP would be telling porkies regarding the legality of using DS2500 in their calipers. It would put them in a very deep bath full of water heated to 150oC  if something went boobies up and the finger pointed back to an AP system.

[QD MBE]

Not sure a post on a forum would do it for me............

....Agreed but I also have had conversation with both AP and my insurer.

Someone posting on a forum the suggestion that AP are telling porkies doesn't do it for me either.

Well someone is, or has carried out their own testing, why would the manufacturer say that the pad does not meet Reg 90 hence not road legal, but a company who it supplies says they are road legal?  Same pad etc.

How does using them in a big brake kit make them legal?  AP must have explained Robin?  i am genuinely interested, I personally think it is a policy failure on behalf of the Reg 90 EU boffins, just by adding the 15+/-% bit has made lots of pads not road legal with a pen stroke..