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[Greeners]

^^^^
I still maintain that Massa did nothing wrong as an employee of Ferrari and professional driver. He was put in a position between a rock and a hard place where he had little choice.

Talk of race bans etc is waaaay OTT, imo.

I'm not a Ferrari fan by any stretch but have to agree with Robin as you could see Massa was devastated at what he was instructed to do by his employer, why punish him when he didn't gain, the only one that gained was that cheating pr1ck Alonso!!  

[Hedge]

Why would they get banned with Jean Todt as the President of the FIA? 

[JJ]

Massa was cheated out of a race win - extra disappointing for him a year to the day of his horrific accident.  
Ferrari are insulting the intelligence of the viewing public by insisting it was a driver decision when clearly a coded team order was issued.
The race stewards were right to issue a fine but surely they missed a zero off!
Just watched the Ayrton Senna piece on Top Gear - fantastic stuff.

[vRStu]

Very true Ian and if I'm honest I think the FIA slapped the $1m fine on them quickly so as to avoid having to change the result of the race.

[RedRobin]

You say he's a professional driver and yet his actions today were totally unprofessional.

I understand your admiration for his team spirit however like it or not he was part of a race rigging which ultimately could affect the result of the World Championship.

....His, and any other driver's, profession is contracted as an employee of a racing team. Massa acted professionally as a team player in my opinion. How can any of us say how we would behave if in Massa's shoes in that same situation.

You make it sound as if Massa had an intention to rig the race and I don't believe this is the case. I think he was obliged to act as he did but clearly wasn't happy about doing so.

Anyway, far too much fuss is being made of this - It's only a game - Win some, lose some - They'll all live to race another day and provide us with entertainment.

[Top Cat]

I personally dont allow my dis-like or like for any particular driver to come into this type of decision. i want the fastest and bravest drivers to be contending and ultimately winning the championship. for me the 2 fastest at this time are Hamilton and Alonso.
Eddie Jordan said we have been robbed of excitement, well i think the opposite has happened, for me this makes it even more exciting that the championship is now closer and one of the fastest drivers is back in the hunt.
All the drivers follow team orders, the thing i cant get my head round is how blatantly obvious Ferrari Made it. 

Alonso is a cock thats obvious, but he sure does add interest. 

[vRS Carl]

But surely if Alonso was faster he would have legitimately got past Massa.

Any driver can be quick with clean air in front of him and the only times Alonso really caught Massa was when they caught up to the traffic.

Look at the point where Alonso tried to overtake. He legitimately did get past only to lose the position on the next corner. He then has a Hissy Fit. In the next few laps Massa then establishes a 2.5sec lead only to be told Alonso is faster

F1 is not just purely about who is the fastest driver. Its also about the drivers ability to get the best out of the car, pace of the car, reliability, skill at overtaking, when to do so, strategy for pits stops etc which ultimately makes it a team sport. BUT what happens on the track should be the drivers decision alone. The only influence the team should have is when to pit stop them as they can sit an analyse the data, which the driver can't do in the car and look for the gap to slot the driver back into.

Ferrari had nothing to gain by this action. If they were concerned about the 1,2 they should have told Alonso to defend the 2nd place and protect Massa at the front. THAT would have been in the interest of the "Team". They can't have been that concerned because IF they thought Massa was too slow and causing a problem they surely would have been worried that Vettel would nip between Massa & Alonso. Massa initially struggled on the hard tyres but within 5 laps had sorted it out and was pulling out some really good laptimes. It was only on iirc the penultimate lap that Alonso actually got the fastest race lap. Otherwise Massa was matching him. It was pure favouritism for one driver. Almost as blatant as what RedBull did to Webber at Silverstone.

Look at Istanbul. After Webber & Vettel had crashed Hamilton & Button almost did the same thing. What did Mclaren say? Well they never said to Jenson " Hamilton is Faster confirm you understood that message" or vice versa. All they said was be careful and lets not do what RedBull just did. Thus allowing the drivers to make there own decisons.

Im not saying that Team Orders don't exist as obviously they do. BUT when a team Blatantly fixes the outcome of the race in favour of one driver then that is wrong and they should be punished. I think Ian hit the nail on the head. Jean Todt is president of the FIA, Ex Ferrari Team Principle - saw all the evidence, thought "we need to be seen to be doing something here but i am not going to be harsh because it's Ferrari" so slapped them on the wrists with a £65k fine

[vRS Carl]

Just seen that Ferrari are not going to appeal the Stewards Decision of the £65k fine.

As for the stewards' decision, given after the race, in the interests of the sport, we have decided not to go through a procedure of appealing against it, confident that the World Council will know how to evaluate the overall facts correctly.

I wonder if thats because they can claim they will be punished twice if the WMC do decide to take action!!

[RedRobin]

F1 is not just purely about who is the fastest driver. Its also about the drivers ability to get the best out of the car, pace of the car, reliability, skill at overtaking, when to do so, strategy for pits stops etc which ultimately makes it a team sport. BUT what happens on the track should be the drivers decision alone. The only influence the team should have is when to pit stop them as they can sit an analyse the data, which the driver can't do in the car and look for the gap to slot the driver back into.

....The driver's championship may be, or should be, all about what you say, but the bottom line is the constructor's championship. The driver is an employed jockey and the bottom line is the money the team/constructor can attract to go towards the goal of winning a motor racing formula - The team heads are in control. The driver is the tip of the iceberg.

As a serviceman, Carl, you are obliged to take orders whether you agree with them or not. That's what Massa had to do. Definitely an illegal order by Ferrari but I'm so glad Massa has not been personally penalised.

[RedRobin]

Just seen that Ferrari are not going to appeal the Stewards Decision of the £65k fine.

As for the stewards' decision, given after the race, in the interests of the sport, we have decided not to go through a procedure of appealing against it, confident that the World Council will know how to evaluate the overall facts correctly.

I wonder if thats because they can claim they will be punished twice if the WMC do decide to take action!!

....Very good advice from their legal eagles. It's wise to avoid as much penalisation as possible.

[QD MBE]

Massa was 14/1 to win the GP.  I reckon there was quite a few unhappy punters about..............

Another twist on the matter?

[Top Cat]

But surely if Alonso was faster he would have legitimately got past Massa.

Any driver can be quick with clean air in front of him and the only times Alonso really caught Massa was when they caught up to the traffic.

Look at the point where Alonso tried to overtake. He legitimately did get past only to lose the position on the next corner. He then has a Hissy Fit. In the next few laps Massa then establishes a 2.5sec lead only to be told Alonso is faster

Alonso could have gotten past him, but at great risk of one of them coming off, i believe that is what frustrated him. When two drivers are driving the same car it takes a kamikaze move to get past at this level. Ferrari were desperate to get a 1-2 result this weekend, even before the race started the team manager was saying this result of both finishing with no dramas was paramount.
It does seem wrong watching these goings on but thats just the way it is, everyone is pissed off because it was dick dastardly who beneiftted, if you read through this thread, most peoples opinions of who they want to win are based on whether they are german or simply foreign. 
I prefer cars to people on the whole  so save my irrational feelings for Eastenders.

All the really great moments in F1 have been when drivers are being mental and overtaking when they really cant or are risking death, thats why mansel was the best for me as he was simply bonkers and just went for it.

[RedRobin]

Massa was 14/1 to win the GP.  I reckon there was quite a few unhappy punters about..............

Another twist on the matter?

....Certainly another twist but not one to be concerned about. It's entirely up to those who choose to gamble - Anyone who gambles (including stocks and shares) should always be well prepared for the possibility of losing. No bet is safe.

I suppose that if some heavy money was on Alonso winning, someone would claim it was rigged. I don't think the Mafia are involved in Ferrari - They are too much in the spotlight for it to remain discrete.

[vRStu]

....The driver's championship may be, or should be, all about what you say, but the bottom line is the constructor's championship. The driver is an employed jockey and the bottom line is the money the team/constructor can attract to go towards the goal of winning a motor racing formula - The team heads are in control. The driver is the tip of the iceberg.

The 'Team' would have scored the same points whether Massa or Alonso finished first so that doesn't hold up mate.  This bit of cheating was all about the Drivers Championship and who currently has the most points. 

[RedRobin]

Alonso could have gotten past him, but at great risk of one of them coming off, i believe that is what frustrated him. When two drivers are driving the same car it takes a kamikaze move to get past at this level. Ferrari were desperate to get a 1-2 result this weekend, even before the race started the team manager was saying this result of both finishing with no dramas was paramount.

It does seem wrong watching these goings on but thats just the way it is, everyone is pissed off because it was dick dastardly who beneiftted, if you read through this thread, most peoples opinions of who they want to win are based on whether they are german or simply foreign.  
I prefer cars to people on the whole   so save my irrational feelings for Eastenders.

All the really great moments in F1 have been when drivers are being mental and overtaking when they really cant or are risking death, thats why mansel was the best for me as he was simply bonkers and just went for it.

....Spot on! (imo)

Most people/fans are driven emotionally and fail to be objective.

I'm a red car fan (Ferrari and always have been for many decades) and also my favourite current driver personality is Felipe Massa, and I also very highly regard his engineer Rob Smedley(?). However, Ferrari were too open in not sufficiently covering up their instructions.. Massa was obliged to pull over and subsequently tell an 'untruth' (imo) for the sake of his team. They've all done it - Lewis not that long ago, for example. Who would some of us be loyal to if between our family and the state? Ferrari is Felipe's family in this scenario. In a way, Rob subtley blew the whistle.

Btw, Mansell was an amateur compared with Senna.