Edition 30 : APR Stage 1 review

[john_o]

Hi Msportman,

I dont have a new dyno yet , but will be at the 6th June 2009 meet @ superchips so will get one then 
I have noticed though that JKM graphs vs others should very different curve styles for the same car, so smoothing factor and load for the run are a factor.

I considered all options before making my choice.
Power delivery for APR / REVO / GIAC seem similar and enthusiastic in delivery from low rpm
Bluefin can be adjusted to remove this , although the newer (non torque limited) maps seems to be just as enthusiastic as others now.
This is just one factor in your choice , make a list of the criteria and itll be obvious which one is for you 

[pazz]

Ed30 APR stage 1 : 98+RON fuel
22 psi peak , 17 psi hold
310bhp @ flywheel
280bhp @ wheels (roughly?)
376 lb/ft peak , 300 lbs/ft plateau

376lb/ft!!!! Does it really put that kind of torque down to the ground in low gears? I can see why you say it pulls like a train in 6th, with that kind of torque it must really shift!

Do you have a boost curve to go with this power/torque curve? I would be interested to see how the car is boosting. Especially around that massive torque peak early on.

I have always favoured the bluefin maps due to their more reserved, smoother torque curve's. Might give the 2wd chance to start rolling.

[Msportman]

Hi Msportman,

I dont have a new dyno yet , but will be at the 6th June 2009 meet @ superchips so will get one then 
I have noticed though that JKM graphs vs others should very different curve styles for the same car, so smoothing factor and load for the run are a factor.

I considered all options before making my choice.
Power delivery for APR / REVO / GIAC seem similar and enthusiastic in delivery from low rpm
Bluefin can be adjusted to remove this , although the newer (non torque limited) maps seems to be just as enthusiastic as others now.
This is just one factor in your choice , make a list of the criteria and itll be obvious which one is for you 


I think you know which company I will be using with the ease of changing programmes and I want cruise control fitted in any case. Have you found a need to upgrade the brakes?
What about the suspension...I personally like it but perhaps some subtle lowering would be good....wondering whether just springs will be any good...eg HR or Eibachs?

Got a WALK kit on order.

[Msportman]

Quite a big spike at the beginning....maybe the RR set up as John states or it's APR's mapping....how does it feel on the road John? 

My APR Stage 3+ did the same.....definate spike initially then  dropped back and smooth delivery. Bluefin maps look much different on 'their' RR!!

Ian

[john_o]

376lb/ft!!!! Does it really put that kind of torque down to the ground in low gears?
Do you have a boost curve to go with this power/torque curve?
I would be interested to see how the car is boosting. Especially around that massive torque peak early on.
Might give the 2wd chance to start rolling.

er in the dry kindof , in the wet er no  judicious use of modulated foot use reqd...
boost follows the characteristic of the power curve tbh , peak 22 psi,  dropping to 17 psi quickly right up thru the rev range. not sure what boost is at redline......

er yes suspension , tyres , WALK , LSD are all considerations at this level of hp

[john_o]

Quite a big spike at the beginning....maybe the RR set up as John states or it's APR's mapping....how does it feel on the road John? 
My APR Stage 3+ did the same.....definate spike initially then  dropped back and smooth delivery. Bluefin maps look much different on 'their' RR!!
Ian

def combo of both , car feels as the power curve looks tbh
APR def favour this way of delivery, in fact I think its LESS pronounced if you go stg2 / 3 (this also appears to be true of the REVO stage mappings)

std brakes are at best adequate for short bursts thats the best I can say.....

suspension i havent done , but lots of good info on here. Its all going to help with the traction issues.
start from the ground up , goodtyres , correct pressures , proper alignment , walkit  , suspension , arbs , camber mounts , poly bushing , lsd ............to name but a few

hth
John

[Msportman]

Done everything and more to the MKIV and ran Dunlop DO1J's ,big brakes. ducting, Motul RB00F brake fluid, Quaiffe, Sachs sports clutch,single mass flywheel, poly bushing everywhere, TT wishbones you name everything done including full engine rebuild capable of 600bhp!!

Is your car DSG or manual as some people complaining of slipping clutches although the tuners say it ok on Stage 1? 

The car standard IMO is pretty capable just don't want to make it horrible and too extreme being FWD. Don't want to spend too much as I've been down this road before.

Superchips look's alot less aggressive....interesting how they differ but I agree Stage 2 is smoother on the dyno plots.

Ian

[john_o]

manual , budget for clutch anyway tbh
try the APR /REVO and superchips on a trial basis???
spend too much lol , you know its already too late dont you.........

[Msportman]

manual , budget for clutch anyway tbh
try the APR /REVO and superchips on a trial basis???
spend too much lol , you know its already too late dont you.........

Yeap!!  Gotta be reasonably sensible this time.

Think I will trial maps as you say.

Ian

[Msportman]

John

Just looked at your APR map comparing it with the SC map which on the face of it seems to have no spike at the beginning of the power curve. The SC chaps seem to rave about it so I may trial both maps.

EWhat did you think of the new SC maps?

[RedRobin]

Yeap!!  Gotta be reasonably sensible this time.

....No prizes for correctly guessing what you said last time!

[Msportman]

Yeap it seems going straight to APR Stage 2 with fuel pump smooths delivery and increases torque looking at the dyno maps 'but' it means more money...doh!

[john_o]

oh dont tempt me 

on the aspect of dyno smooting etc , check out

http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4289.0

chungsters REVO stg GTI , for MAHA vs JKM dyno runs , the same car/tune only diff is dyno and the curves are quite a bit different.
MAHA shows the intermediate peaks and jumps , JKM is very smooth transition......

hth 

[billyboy]

Top write up Johno
Just to back things up as he's said the Apr map is for me anyway everything i wanted, with the location/cost/serv/dealer.
it ticked all the boxes. ive just dug out the dyno chart and these where my figs.
56reg GTI stage 1 APR, green cotton filter, STD pipe
1st run (blue) max power 233.15, max torque 296.94 max clutch power 250.89
2nd      (green)                 234.62                     299.21                              251.13
3rd       (red)                     233.93                     300.38                              252.12
the power does come in from the off, new tyres, walk, ECS dogbone fitted, eibach sportlines (springs)  and had VWR/Racingline paddle clutch fitted which all works together now.
as for fuel its often got morrisons own in it and never missis a beat.
i find myself often pressing the fast peddle to much then backing off to bring it back down.
when i drove to france last year i found it better to drive in bare feet, better feel.
and on a run on the toll road had it the highest speed ive ever gone , (not toll road, private road)
Well been faster on 2 wheels but thats another story 
billy

[john_o]

another dyno run today as I tagged along at an R32OC meet.

Golf GTI Edition 30 APR Stage 1 : Shell Optimax fuel : 22k miles
27 deg C 1021 mb , 3 runs back to back

275@wheels (298@flywheel) 344 lbs/ft
279@wheels (296@flywheel) 333 lbs/ft
279@wheels (298@flywheel) 337 lbs/ft

slightly down from last time, but it was warmer.
I also have slightly reduced peak boost levels (1-2 psi down) so my DV may have started to go.
Good thing is that the pronounced torque peak is less so on these runs, and confirms that the way these are plotted and the dyno mode can and does influence the way it looks.



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