DSG or not DSG, that is the question.....

[jedi-knight83]

I've got a Gti DSG.. I've not driven a manual.

However when I get an Ed30 next year sometime... I think I'll go manual.

DSG is great dont get me wrong but its definitely less involving. I had a E46 M3 with the SMG gear box and I'd hoped it would be a bit more like that but its so smooth its pretty un rewarding to drive fast. That said. 80% of the time round town I just leave it in auto 'D' and its great.. so depends what you want to use the car for. If it daily driving then DSG is great... if you just want a weekend toy I'd go manual now.

Then there is the bit where if you want to remap the car the DSG is still fast but the lag from the turbo once its changed takes away the whole point of having DSG seemless shift in the first place.

[Flashpilot]

Jedi Knight.....that's the way I'm leaning, the manual way I mean, as I can be lazy in the other Auto I own....and I'm a bit of a self proclaimed purist when it comes to "driving experience". I almost went for an E46 M3 myself about 6 months ago....they any good? Anyway....I digress?!!

I'm now very interested to hear about remap and turbo lag on the DSG as a Bluefin will be my first of many mod's!

[Shorty]

Has anyone tried a Shark DSG map? Just seen they're advertising them on they're website now for £250 all in! Not a bad price considering Revo charge about £400-£450 don't they? Anyone know what the map actually does? Remove torque limiters? Fully manual?

[jedi-knight83]

Jedi Knight.....that's the way I'm leaning, the manual way I mean, as I can be lazy in the other Auto I own....and I'm a bit of a self proclaimed purist when it comes to "driving experience". I almost went for an E46 M3 myself about 6 months ago....they any good? Anyway....I digress?!!

I'm now very interested to hear about remap and turbo lag on the DSG as a Bluefin will be my first of many mod's!

The E46 M3 was awesome. Mine was a late 53 plate with all the toys and SMG... but the SMG is much more involving and direct and you can feel it thumping in a gear when you change.... just make sure you have deep pockets to run the thing!

IMO the GTi is 80-90% as fast and fun on the uk roads and much cheaper to run and I'm much happier being back in a little VAG turbo..

... and dont get me wrong.. the DSG is very capable and fast A-B but having owner it for a few months now I just wish it wasn't as smooth.

Regarding the turbo lag.... im not 100% sure what the issue is yet, I've got to go back to Motech again.... But when your at 3/4 or full throttle and change gear .. the change is instant but then you can feel a hesitation for half a second like its gone off boost or where its building it up again after the gear change. Some people say its normal but then I've seen youtube clips of dsg cars that have been mapped that can accelerate hard and dont exhibit the same pause that I seem to get...

[rich83]

If you go for manual, a £400 remap zoo becomes £1400 when your clutch starts to slip 

[Flashpilot]

Interesting what you say (Jedi) re the Golf being 80-90% as quick as the M3 in normal use. You're not the first that has said that to me actually.

Not heard anything about remaps and clutch slip on a manual.....maybe if you're chucking on another 100bhp you'd see an issue....but not for another 40.

[Kregiel]

i'd agree on m3... it's non turbo engine hence you really need to rev it high to get both torgue and power whereas in turbo charge engines the torgue is available most of the time starting at low revs

i tested e9 series m3 and wasn't really impressed.... The noise is amazing once you rev it high but I wouldn't say it's that much quicker if at all that ed30 with 320 bhp....

[markfive]

If the car is coming from a VW dealership then get them to give you a copy of it's service records so you can validate that it's had the DSG oil changed at the right intervals and that any recalls have been attended to (think an 06 car will be a likely candidate for the coil pack recall IIRC). Even if the car isn't being sold by VW then you might find that a friendly dealer service department will oblige if you pop in with the VIN - my local dealer has always been good like this but some are less accomodating.

Mechatronic issues are normally easy to spot (typically a clunky 1st and/or Reverse selection when the car has warmed up - a little clunkiness whilst the car is cold is quite normal)

Golfs have a reputation for a reason - but buying any car that's a few years old carries a degree of risk, so if you have any doubts then an independent inspection etc is well worth the money.

PS. Fell in love with the DSG as soon as I drove one, and despite having Mechatronic issues (which were all dealt with under warranty) I would gladly have another - preferably wrapped up in something Edition 35-shaped 

[Mk5 GTian]

There's a reason why 'manual' has the word 'man' in it! 

Read Autocar's MK5 buying guide, published earlier in the year. They clearly try and steer people away from the DSG, but they positively encouraged looking at manual cars with 100k on them, saying it's not a problem, as the Mark5 is generally very reliable.

[Flashpilot]

Hey all.....

Well, by a stoke of luck (albeit BAD for other reasons), I ended up in a DSG rental last night. I'm sorry everyone, but I definitely would prefer the manual!

I can see the appeal for sure. Great in "auto" mode and "S"...when driven normally....but it isn't (IMO) great in manual, or in some conditions in either auto mode. Really good, but not great.

In one example, I approached a junction and decelerated as usual (we're on a country lane here), nice and smooth and then as I turned up the lane, I floored it. This took the box by surprise and so it hesitated, reselected a lower gear and then off we went, so I think it's fairly easy to lull into a false sense of security....  

In manual, when you are at the top of the rev range, it makes the gear change, regardless of whether you want it to or not. This makes sense, but I COULD (say, on a track day or trying hard on the road somewhere) approach a corner, hit the top of the revs in one gear and find myself exiting the corner in the wrong gear, or worse, having an up shift mid corner. Also, it means that I may have wanted the additional engine braking as i slwed slightly, but lost it as it changed up a gear.

On the whole....I thought it was excellent and all I'm saying is, that it's not for me as a permanent feature, but I do see the appeal, especially for those that have to drive in traffic a lot. 90% of the time, it will work fine for me, but there are times when it wouldn't.....I'd rather mess up my own gear selection! Lol

I'm sure that you die hard DSG fans will have something to say, but in my limited experience.....this is what I found and if I had one for a week, I think I could find other things that didn't suit my style. I liked it a lot.....but didn't love it.....the car still needs the anticipation that it can only get from the soft squishy stuff between the pedals and the seat!

In summary....the best "paddle shift" out there? Quite possibly. Better than a manual? Not yet......

[jedi-knight83]

Did you push the gear selector across to full manual mode? or just pull a paddle while you were in 'D' mode?

[Shorty]

Just got off the phone with Shark Performance about a DSG remap...

They up the torque limiters, raise the rev limiter and it make it fully manuel in manuel. (They actually said it still does kick down but only if you REALLY labour the engine, its fine at like 1500rpm!)

Apparently faster changes too. All for £250 all in, also if you get it done in December they are offering free dyno runs too, sweet!

[laserblue999]

I have a DSG which was the first one I drove and, if I'm honest, I'm only just starting to get used to the way it works best one month later!

IMO a single test drive (which admittedly is all you're likely to get when you look to buy a car) is not going to give a comprehensive assessment of which is best. Its a bit easier if you're used to a manual like me, as broadly speaking you know what to expect as the basic gear changing technique is the same due to muscle memory and experience.

In my mind the jury is still out, but I find that day by day I'm getting better and as much out of it as I would with the manual, and if I want to be lazy in the city, I can. With regards to the real driver thing, yes I do miss some elements of driving a manual, but they have been replaced by different methods to go quickly, where permitted, which are just as fun on the b-roads. The great feeling of driving a GTI is well and truly there! Manual mode with the stick is my current fav.

Price wise, I was getting annoyed as I couldn't find the spec/mileage/colour etc. for the budget I had which was frustrating (esp. having to use the train!). I'm glad I waited though rather than plumping for the higher miles/larger spec option as the ideal one suddenly came along which had it all (and happened to be DSG!). Looking at some trying to upgrade their lower spec cars does look expensive and complicated sometimes - but then again thats part of the fun I guess!

[GLIDN]

I have a DSG which was the first one I drove and, if I'm honest, I'm only just starting to get used to the way it works best one month later!

IMO a single test drive (which admittedly is all you're likely to get when you look to buy a car) is not going to give a comprehensive assessment of which is best. Its a bit easier if you're used to a manual like me, as broadly speaking you know what to expect as the basic gear changing technique is the same due to muscle memory and experience.

In my mind the jury is still out, but I find that day by day I'm getting better and as much out of it as I would with the manual, and if I want to be lazy in the city, I can. With regards to the real driver thing, yes I do miss some elements of driving a manual, but they have been replaced by different methods to go quickly, where permitted, which are just as fun on the b-roads. The great feeling of driving a GTI is well and truly there! Manual mode with the stick is my current fav.

Price wise, I was getting annoyed as I couldn't find the spec/mileage/colour etc. for the budget I had which was frustrating (esp. having to use the train!). I'm glad I waited though rather than plumping for the higher miles/larger spec option as the ideal one suddenly came along which had it all (and happened to be DSG!). Looking at some trying to upgrade their lower spec cars does look expensive and complicated sometimes - but then again thats part of the fun I guess!

^^^^
He has some very valid points.

I'll add to this for the OP and the above posts.

I Owned an MK5 TDI DSG (140HP) we can't get manual TDI's in New Zealand. Had nothing but problems with the Mechatronics unit. VW replaced the unit 5 times in the space of 4 months. I eventually gave the car back.

while my TDI was back and forth, I got given a mk5 GTI DSG as a loan car for about a month. (even got to trial an APR tune too, lol)

It does really take a week or more of constant driving a DSG to truely appreciate what DSG can or can't do for you. It's a damn impressive gearbox setup and drive (as an auto).

I did however end up getting a MK5 GTI 6spd Manual (as it gave me the same fuel usage as the TDI, so could not see the point of the TDI). I have now owned it for over 18 months. Thanks to MK5golfGTI (improved it a lot (wasting money, lol)

I have however decided I'm selling my manual GTI and will be looking at getting a DSG GTI or possibly DSG TDI.
Again DSG option was confirmed when I finally got to drive a Edition 30 for the very first time yesterday.

As for the Fart/popping noise between gear changes. I think it's great, it only does this due to flat shifting gear changes. So I'm not really sure how JEDI has been or is experiencing the lag issue thou. As every DSG GTI I have ever driven Stock or Remapped. Is always buttery smooth, lightning fast gear changes. Including the MK6.

But the MK6 DSG is light years ahead of the MK5 DSG thou.

[Gene Hunt]

drove both dsg and manual, when i was looking for a edition 30, for me the manual was more involving and felt more of a drivers car, and bought the manual 

..........same here.Manual all the way.