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Author Topic: Forum Rolling Road day @ Superchips 6th June 2009  (Read 154231 times)

Offline Top Cat

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Re: Forum Rolling Road day @ Superchips 6th June 2009
« Reply #675 on: June 09, 2009, 01:17:43 pm »
Well thats that problem solved and put to bed.  :grin:
I reckon we should have a dynolicious i-phone, app day somewhere. that would be just as clear.  :evilgrin:

Offline SteveP

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Re: Forum Rolling Road day @ Superchips 6th June 2009
« Reply #676 on: June 09, 2009, 01:32:37 pm »
^^^

LOL, now I'm getting worried!!

Was yours left running outside before your dyno run Chris?

Offline joesgti

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Re: Forum Rolling Road day @ Superchips 6th June 2009
« Reply #677 on: June 09, 2009, 01:34:01 pm »
Well thats that problem solved and put to bed.  :grin:
I reckon we should have a dynolicious i-phone, app day somewhere. that would be just as clear.  :evilgrin:
mine came back with 380bhp  :grin: :grin:


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Offline markymark

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Re: Forum Rolling Road day @ Superchips 6th June 2009
« Reply #678 on: June 09, 2009, 01:34:29 pm »
Well thats that problem solved and put to bed.  :grin:
I reckon we should have a dynolicious i-phone, app day somewhere. that would be just as clear.  :evilgrin:
mine came back with 380bhp  :grin: :grin:
Isnt that correct Joe  :laugh:

Offline Superchips

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Re: Forum Rolling Road day @ Superchips 6th June 2009
« Reply #679 on: June 09, 2009, 02:09:09 pm »
The comparison between the two GTI's is a good example of what I was saying earlier

Car 1: High intake temp. Low power at wheels as a result. Higher correction applied.

Car 2: Low intake temp. Higher power at wheels. Lower correction applied.

on the road both cars would have significantly lower inlet temps and power would return to the hot car.

In conclusion:

Either someone needs to buy a bigger intercooler :wink: or we need bigger fans.

Jamie

Offline joesgti

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Re: Forum Rolling Road day @ Superchips 6th June 2009
« Reply #680 on: June 09, 2009, 02:13:17 pm »
my car is running an S3 cooler over chris's car and his produced 30+ bhp over mine?  :confused:

im very confused now..........


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Offline joesgti

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Re: Forum Rolling Road day @ Superchips 6th June 2009
« Reply #681 on: June 09, 2009, 02:14:22 pm »
what does

higher correction...

lower correction.... mean??   :confused:


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Offline Superchips

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Re: Forum Rolling Road day @ Superchips 6th June 2009
« Reply #682 on: June 09, 2009, 02:34:58 pm »
The correction is the difference between engine power and the corrected power as shown on the Maha printout in the left column.

in an ideal world we would have fans strong enough to keep the inlet temp at ambient, this would minimise the difference to the corrected figure.

Jamie

Offline Poppa Dom

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Re: Forum Rolling Road day @ Superchips 6th June 2009
« Reply #683 on: June 09, 2009, 02:57:28 pm »
^^^

LOL, now I'm getting worried!!

Nothing to worry about Chris - we'll get some road based data logging done to check you out next week if you like.

Dom

Phil Mcavity

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Re: Forum Rolling Road day @ Superchips 6th June 2009
« Reply #684 on: June 09, 2009, 07:30:36 pm »
Something is really a miss here?. All Gti's and Ed30's gave what we all agree on between 10-15% higher then what we ALL thought to be realistic.
My querry has always been, that intake temps have been taken from inside the car, which may tend to affect the TFSI/TSI engine calculations.

The R32's read accurate, so my question is, why is it that these rollers acurately calculated the four wheel drive cars and diesels better then ALL the 4 pot petrols.

This thing about TFSI engines producing more then Factory tested horsepower is Unfounded and that VAG cannot sell these Main stream Production cars with Horsepower outputs being higher then what VW actually quote.These engines are not Hand built to give the theory of some of these engines produce more then standard quoted from the Manufacturer.
As has been said of rollers read different all over the world, well that is true as each rollers are calibrated  differently and calculations of flywheel as this case is proven as we saw on saturday.

IMO,  Seems to be how it calculates the actual bhp thats questionable as like ive mentioned, the diesels and the V6 4wd cars read correct , but ALL 2.0TFSI's were all above and in a couple of cases all over the place.( DomT and Hurdys)as an example.

Any using the method of taking the intake temps from inside the car , surely thats not the best way to then be able to calculate the bhp of the car??

Perhaps Superchips may be able to say why its best to do it that way and not from elsewhere?, and maybe to clear the reason why everyones intake temps were different, and was that due to the heating being left on inside the footwell  :confused:

Thanks again superchips for coming on and trying to explain.

As agreed , was good that all readings were at simular levels and thats good in showing consistancy, but perhaps its how the rollers calculate the readings to convert that to hp on the TFSI/TSI units??
Has there been like a Ford focus RR day, did any of those cars bring up 222bhp or near as??? or any other Hot hatch's
Confused :confused:








« Last Edit: June 09, 2009, 08:01:33 pm by Phil Mcavity »

Offline Hurdy

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Re: Forum Rolling Road day @ Superchips 6th June 2009
« Reply #685 on: June 09, 2009, 07:48:49 pm »

IMO,  Seems to be how it calculates the actual bhp thats questionable as like ive mentioned, the diesels and the V6 4wd cars read correct , but ALL 2.0TFSI's were all above and in a couple of cases all over the place.( DomT and Hurdys)as an example.


I personally thought I would have been the highest BHP of the day, simply because of the amount of modifications that have been done on the car AND I have one of the very few truly custom remaps as Custom Code developed the phase 2+ software on my car.

If you take whitegti's and joesgti as an example and refer to the whp, this should be the true representation of the power of the car as it is the direct measurement. Any other measurements are subjective and based on relative calculations of intake temps etc with varying correction factors. This is why the guys in the USA like WHP and not BHP. When I get my graph from Jamie it will be interesting to see if there is a relationship between my results and DomT's in respect of whp as I have an aftermarket cooler like Joe and Dom doesn't (like whitegti).

This happens at almost every RR day I go on and yet everyone loves to pull apart the results and dismiss the results. The day was good, the people brilliant and so in my book the day was an unmittigated success. The results are what they are and only the full readouts can give any insight into underlying differences.

Benchmarking against stock cars isn't a bad idea, but they still don't give a full representation as they can have different fuel etc.

 :smiley:
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Phil Mcavity

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Re: Forum Rolling Road day @ Superchips 6th June 2009
« Reply #686 on: June 09, 2009, 08:00:04 pm »
i was only making an example john as your car has shed loads more done modification wise over Dominics.You like me, would of thought you would have more power achieved when the ammount of mods youve done. You should of got the Most on the day.

Im not trying to single anyone out john.In my case, my car as an example does not produce 254bhp!

Offline Top Cat

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Re: Forum Rolling Road day @ Superchips 6th June 2009
« Reply #687 on: June 09, 2009, 08:11:14 pm »


This happens at almost every RR day I go on and yet everyone loves to pull apart the results and dismiss the results. The day was good, the people brilliant and so in my book the day was an unmittigated success. The results are what they are and only the full readouts can give any insight into underlying differences.


 :smiley:

The difference in this 3 or 4 pages of discussion and confusion this time is. It is being discussed respectfully and in know way being personnel, which always happens to any of these discussions that i have read and why PG has not posted the results i think.
If it continues like it has so far, then we will be able to carry on and maybe find a couple of answer's.  :drinking:

Offline john_o

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Re: Forum Rolling Road day @ Superchips 6th June 2009
« Reply #688 on: June 09, 2009, 08:23:33 pm »
like Hurdy says the wheel horsepower may be the only value to compare  :happy2:
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Offline SteveP

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Re: Forum Rolling Road day @ Superchips 6th June 2009
« Reply #689 on: June 09, 2009, 08:43:47 pm »

My querry has always been, that intake temps have been taken from inside the car, which may tend to affect the TFSI/TSI engine calculations.


I think you need to go back and read Jamie's reply again Steve as your statement about the intake temps being taken from inside the car is incorrect.

Quote from: Superchips

Inlet temp is measured by the dyno over obd, we do this to achieve consistency