custom vs generic map

[chopper]

how much different (or better) can a custom map really be to a generic one such as Revo, or superchips? Ive had a custom map before and it didnt seem to work at all. surely all the maps change the same parameters in the ECU. even if you do use a different intake, or exhaust or fuel pump, or intercooler surely the parameters will all be roughly the same at the end of the day.
any thoughts?

[Janner_Sy]

 Definecustom and generic.  REVO  isn't  generic nor is it com it sits in between in my opinion.

Many tunes sell custom maps that are anything but custom its  all sales jargon. Search it on here loads of threads about it

[chopper]

i mean -
custom - tuner takes your ecu map fiddles with it and reloads it back in your car
generic - tuner takes upgraded map from database and loads it into your car ie revo, superchips
i suppose revo isnt truly generic as you can adjust b/t/f.

[RedRobin]

.
The Revo basic remap might possibly be described as generic but its adjustability allows a degree of customising to accommodate a car's individual mix of hardware modifications. In my case, that has been invaluable on more than one occasion during running Revo for about 60,000 miles.

I can't say that one tuner's map is better than another's - I think it depends on what you personally prefer as suiting you.

[GrayMK5GTI]

Generic maps work well on standard cars, and cars that have mods that the map has been created to work with (for example IF Superchips designed their stage two map on a vehicle with a full milltek exhaust then the map will work BETTER on cars with a Milltek exhausts. If you see what I mean??)

Ultimately a full custom map is ideal as the tuner can optimise the boost, timing, fueling etc INFINITLY THROUGHOUT THE REV RANGE. I believe Revo (for example) have a degree of adjustablility (fuelling, timing etc) which effects the whole map / rev range.

not sure how much difference it makes on the road but you would expect a custom map to create smoother curves on the dyno as the tuner has the ability to iron out each and every dip / bump in the power curve and customise the map to the airflow in and out of the engine from any modifications you have (if the tuner has time  )

Also worth adding that a custom map is only as good as the person that mapped it - the more mainstream maps like Revo, Superchips etc have had many hours R&D time to iron out problems and optimise the power & delivery.

Graeme

[chopper]

so if a custom tuner remaps your car and doesnt do a dyno then it cant be a custom map? its more of a guess at what the settings should be, or something more generic. when i got my car custom mapped at a local 'custom tuner' the dyno wouldnt work with the dsg for some reason. i really just think he wasnt used to mapping dsg cars. needless to say the map wasnt right and i got a full refund.
hence my queries about revo... my next choice of map

[GrayMK5GTI]

so if a custom tuner remaps your car and doesnt do a dyno then it cant be a custom map? its more of a guess at what the settings should be, or something more generic. when i got my car custom mapped at a local 'custom tuner' the dyno wouldnt work with the dsg for some reason. i really just think he wasnt used to mapping dsg cars. needless to say the map wasnt right and i got a full refund.
hence my queries about revo... my next choice of map

They could tune it on the road as an alternative to the dyno. Some people swear by tuning a car on the road not the dyno 

[heavyd]

If you do get a custom map, you're best off sticking to the tried and trusted companies to do it for you.
i.e R-Tech, PDtuning, PTorque, RSTuning etc

so if a custom tuner remaps your car and doesnt do a dyno then it cant be a custom map? its more of a guess at what the settings should be, or something more generic. when i got my car custom mapped at a local 'custom tuner' the dyno wouldnt work with the dsg for some reason. i really just think he wasnt used to mapping dsg cars. needless to say the map wasnt right and i got a full refund.
hence my queries about revo... my next choice of map

They could tune it on the road as an alternative to the dyno. Some people swear by tuning a car on the road not the dyno 

I would have though a dyno would be essential in doing a custom map, you cant always see if theres any dips in the power etc whilst doing it on the road.
I remember when I had my mk4 golf, I nearly had MRC tuning come up and do a map for my car, they used to sit in the cars and do all the changes from the backseat, obviosly their fortunes have risen as they are now one of the top audi tuning places

[chopper]

im not local to any of the custom tuners you have mentioned, and there only is one revo dealer. There are some other custom guys ive never heard of before, and im hesitant to go back custom after last experience. i think ill have to go revo

[PDT]

Copied form a previous post asking the same question:



Good debate this one, and a question I am asked daily is 'can you do custom maps and how is it better than a generic map?'


The explanation could go into 3+ pages but a general rule is that a generic map is a 1 size fits all product, suitable for a wide range of applications and is not and can not be adjusted by the end user. i.e bluefin or 'flash remaps'. Flash remaps are a simple procedure where you take the car to a 'tuner' ( I use the term tuner very loosely for this type of remap option) and they get an ID of your ECU type and software version and email it to a 3rd party that will copy and paste the changed settings that were made for a similar ECU and car into a file and send it back, this file is then flashed over your current software, you get the keys back and the 'tuner' hopes it doesnt have any problems. The worst type of flash tuning is usually carried out from a back of a van.

A custom map will be very different, the tuner will likely be making the software themselfes rather than sending it away to a 3rd party and the use of a dyno is essential for back to back testing and measuring, however the use of a dyno does not define a custom map, its just a very very handy tool to have to determine wether ther changes you have made are making any real difference to power, emmissions, torque and various other parameters. A dyno allows you to back to back test the effect of the customising of the map in a controlled and safe environment. I.e if you add ignition advance is it making extra power? Is that extra bit of fuel you have added at 3000 rpm at 80% throttle lowered the exhaust gas temps to a safer levels, or has it effected the power output in any way?    You get the idea, its time consuming and costly but you get the best end product available, not essesntial for the average stage 1 car but for motorsport or highly modded stuff its a must.

Then you get the middle ground such as REVO, which offers the best of both worlds. A simple sliding scale to adjust the boost, timing and fueling properties within the map and can be accurately adjusted with on-road datalogging to get a good end product. Yes it is custom to a certain extent but lacks the resolution of a genuine custom map as you can only adjust 3 parameters on a 2D sliding scale, no single adjustments for fuel vs throttle position for example, but for a quick easy product they are the market leaders for a very good reason.

As a guide, anyone that offers a 'full custom map' without the use of a dyno is cutting corners a little. Anyone that offers a custom map without any datalogging is either missinformed or pulling the wool over your eyes. We had a customer in yesterday that had a 'proper custom remap' (his words) that cost just £200 and was finished in just 10 mins, he was enquiring about rolling road testing as he couldnt tell the difference after it was done apart from it was jerky at low throttle, the 'tuner' said it will get better when the weather isnt so cold

[PDT]

Custom mapping can only really be carried out on the road when you are live mapping, i.e the engine is running while you are making the changes to the map in real time. This is rarely possible with modern ECU's and involves a lot of trial and error work. Mapping on the road is also extremely dangerous and can easily lose you your license.

I have had many tuners come to use my dyne that previously have always only mapped on the road, they always start out saying that they prefer road mapping. Within 2 hours on the dyne they are usually asking me how much it cost, who to speak to about buying a dyno etc....

Don't be fooled about custom mapping, I honestly believe that the majority of custom mapping claimed to be carried out is just a play on words, I speak to 20-30 other tuners on a daily/weekly basis and they all claim to offer custom maps but only 2-3 of them truly understand mapping and many don't know the basics of how a simple engine works!

The previous bad experience of the OP with a custom map was probably not the best basis to judge the quality of all custom maps, as with anything you can purchase there are good and bad products and services out there 

[GrayMK5GTI]

im not local to any of the custom tuners you have mentioned, and there only is one revo dealer. There are some other custom guys ive never heard of before, and im hesitant to go back custom after last experience. i think ill have to go revo

I went to R-Tech for my map (85 miles each way) and I'm glad I did as I was able to watch them make the map adjustments and also talked me through what they were doing. I have a very smooth & torquey custom map  

Which ever way you go, may just pay to choose a tuner discussed on this forum (use the search function)  

Where are you based??

[chopper]

my custom mapper showed me the changes he was making  too and they did seem to make sense. unfortunately it didnt translate to a good drive on the road. noticeable delay in power after dsg gear change. from speaking to PDT it was likely a torque limit issue, either way whatever it was the tuner couldnt resolve.

so im guessing Revo charge big bucks because they have done all the work behind the scenes with R and D of the maps before they stick them in the publics cars? im sure part of the price is for the name too.

im based in Belfast so my options are severely limited. i might venture across the water for some work to be done on the car, but that would be for fitting an LSD.