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Author Topic: Water Meth Injection - is it a tried and tested mod or risky?  (Read 14180 times)

Offline berg

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Re: Water Meth Injection - is it a tried and tested mod or risky?
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2012, 04:55:52 pm »
thanks Dan, still not convinced would go for it but feel much more informed now  :happy2:
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Offline DanGB

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Re: Water Meth Injection - is it a tried and tested mod or risky?
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2012, 04:56:59 pm »
What you not convinced about?
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Offline ktlstar

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Re: Water Meth Injection - is it a tried and tested mod or risky?
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2012, 05:03:47 pm »
I would like to get this done, i can trust myself installing it but i would prefer to get it installed/setup on a proper rolling road.

Anyone for the Southeast to do this ?
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Offline DanGB

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Re: Water Meth Injection - is it a tried and tested mod or risky?
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2012, 05:10:09 pm »
Jabbasport in Peterborough will yes, and they are the UK distributor for snow performance kits.
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Offline Janner_Sy

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Re: Water Meth Injection - is it a tried and tested mod or risky?
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2012, 05:15:29 pm »
I decided against it each time as its just something to go wrong.

For m current car i was having big heat issues so WMI seemed like a very good fix, but the new intercooler/rad sorted out all the heat problem and since the little 1.4TSI isnt exactly known for reliability i thought id leave the WMI out.  One less thig to go wrong

Offline R-tech-Nick

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Re: Water Meth Injection - is it a tried and tested mod or risky?
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2012, 05:23:35 pm »
WMI is to be used for combustion efficiency, on its own merits there is very very little gains to be had.    

With all petrol turbo cars the onset of knock/pre combustion/det/pinking it a limiting factor for power, the knock limits the amount of timing and boost with limits potential power.

With the 1.8T k03s engine I am setting and tuning the WMI to spray on to the ait intake temps sensor which lowers the air temp reading the ecu is seeing, the ecu uses a map called "Delta Zündwinkel im Warmlauf"  this map is a timing correction factor based on air temp vs rpm.  With the WMI active the air temp reading can drop from 30-40deg to 8-10deg with in a split second under full load.  We can use the lower temp reading on the correction map to add more ignition advance around 8-10deg (temp) in most cases upto 7deg more timing which works out to be an avg of 25lbft and 15bhp just on a small K03s 1.8T.  

 I have found 100% to give best power gains but not done any testing on how safe it is??

I have only tuned one TFSI BWA K04 with WMI and pushed the balls off it with timing making around 390-403bhp avg on the dyno and max correction at the extream is -5cf, without the WMI I would be seeing -12cf+ and at a point where the ecu map is pulling the boost away to save the engine and maybe only 360-370bhp tops.

If your not going to push your TFSI hard then IMO its not worth going for WMI as the TFSI engine in design works well to suppress pre combustion.

If your running stage2+ and have the ability to dial timing in via an SPS switch then the WMI system is a good investement for you imo.

I am sure over the next few months there will be more TFSI customers coming in for map with WMI which means I can collect data and come up with remap ideas like the methods used on the 1.8T engine I tune.




Nice story....

on my own sprint car Golf AUM with home made hybrid turbo to 300bhp then NOS to take it to a little under 400bhp, to get the car to make good power top end I had to fully remove the knock control intervention from the ecu map (running without knock sensor)  I had to tune my map live using det cans and head phones to listen for the onset of knock, this was all done with the aid of devils own DV30 WMI kit.

 My car would run 12.5s 1/4 at pod and would run with zero knock and 100% safe............... until my WMI controller failed as Santa Pod and ended up with melted pistion, valves and spark on cylinder number 3.   But this was running the bollox of my engine with stock manifold to prove a point, the WMI can work miracles when working correct.......

Racing my wife and as I go over the line in 3rd gear around 7800rpm my engine melts.. :ashamed:
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Offline alackofspeed

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Re: Water Meth Injection - is it a tried and tested mod or risky?
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2012, 05:24:08 pm »
I'm not familiar with the effect Methanol has on car components (aluminim heads / valve / pistons), but handling methanol in the process / oil and gas industries is a constant problem (failure of vessels / pipework). Probably not too big a deal for transient use in a car, but I'd imagine prolonged usage could cause accelerated degradation of parts in contact with methanol.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2012, 05:34:54 pm by alackofspeed »

Offline R-tech-Nick

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Re: Water Meth Injection - is it a tried and tested mod or risky?
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2012, 05:24:25 pm »
There are no risks with running WMI.

But if your worried just sell your TFSI and buy a Nissan Micra...........  
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« Last Edit: May 01, 2012, 05:30:05 pm by R-tech-Nick »
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Offline DanGB

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Re: Water Meth Injection - is it a tried and tested mod or risky?
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2012, 05:32:27 pm »
Meth can be nasty stuff to humans, but I take the precautions and use chemical gloves and goggles when handling just in case.
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Offline R-tech-Nick

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Re: Water Meth Injection - is it a tried and tested mod or risky?
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2012, 06:26:36 pm »
Someone just posted this on golfgti forum  make awesome reading... :happy2:

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/waterinjection.html
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Offline berg

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Re: Water Meth Injection - is it a tried and tested mod or risky?
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2012, 11:11:34 pm »
thanks nick, interesting reading and Dan I meant I am not convinced it is for me
Diamond Black Pearl Edition 30, still going strong but now back to Stg 1

Offline Ciaran

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Re: Water Meth Injection - is it a tried and tested mod or risky?
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2012, 12:19:13 am »
Why even bother to inject it?
Just chuck it in the fuel and have the car mapped to suit.
I run 30% in the impreza. 210 litre drum is £100 ish  :wink:

Offline berg

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Re: Water Meth Injection - is it a tried and tested mod or risky?
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2012, 09:03:16 am »
Why even bother to inject it?
Just chuck it in the fuel and have the car mapped to suit.
I run 30% in the impreza. 210 litre drum is £100 ish  :wink:


interesting take on it, but if you stick straight in the fuel there will be no water element will there and is that not a crucial part of the equation?
Diamond Black Pearl Edition 30, still going strong but now back to Stg 1

Offline Ciaran

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Re: Water Meth Injection - is it a tried and tested mod or risky?
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2012, 10:36:17 am »
Why even bother to inject it?
Just chuck it in the fuel and have the car mapped to suit.
I run 30% in the impreza. 210 litre drum is £100 ish  :wink:


interesting take on it, but if you stick straight in the fuel there will be no water element will there and is that not a crucial part of the equation?

The water in water injection lowers the charge temp therefore making the burn more efficient.
The methanol burns more efficiently due to higher octane level, it also burns cooler.

I have heard a lot of incidents with people ruining engine when water injection fails, be it a pump failure, nozzle blockage etc.
To me the risks with water injection are to high.

Here is a link to a video of a guy who maps my impreza running straight methanol with no water injection.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X_KcPU25YoM

Offline berg

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Re: Water Meth Injection - is it a tried and tested mod or risky?
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2012, 12:03:35 pm »
mmmm, interesting stuff
Diamond Black Pearl Edition 30, still going strong but now back to Stg 1