The key to performance motoring is....

[Tortaruga]

Ronaldo in wellies!

Watch that clown FAIL at the Euros. Never does it for his country.

[Saintsteve]

^^^^
You forgot the UNIbrace XB, John - Makes a big difference to how the car feels planted.  

Wow... Listen to you! ;-)

Weight kills performance... Tyres, brakes and suspension all add performance... As does upping the power, but weight is the biggest factor...

that's the manufactures reason for bigger brakes from the outset... Except some people don't agree  

..but what do I know ..

 

[Saintsteve]

Thank god for this place when there's nowt on the telly! 

At least Eastenders is unpredictable Nathan...

[RedRobin]

^^^^
There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding in most of this thread:

I don't think that anyone is saying that the ex-factory, standard Golf is a poor performer or inadequate - It's a great car and a true allrounder and so are all of the standard OEM Golf variants.

What most folks are saying is that there is room for IMPROVEMENT.

Depending on how you, the individual car owner/driver, want to use your car, a whole range of aftermarket mods offer endless possibilities. The Germans are clever enough to realise that the Mad Englishmen (and others) can take their car to the next level and beyond at their own expense.

@ SaintSteve:
I'm thinking that as someone very keen indeed on detailing, you would prefer if VW had provided much better paint thickness etc. But they only do what is adequate for their main commercial market. In other words, paint is only one area which could be improved.

In spite of a GTI badge, VW don't provide the brakes and suspension for very enthusiastic use - Why should they? It might seem that us lot are the only folks who drive GTI's but it's not the case. It makes more sense for them to provide a good basis at a competitive cost for us to modify to suit our individual needs. For me, that means modding so it's a primarily safe and tactile car with a good balance between performance and handling: Fast road responsible fun with the capability to occasionally enjoy a trackday (if I can ever afford to again!).

Don't forget that the GTI is only a variant of a mass market factory production Golf. It's not designed and built like a Koenigsegg.

[berg]

yup, my ED30 was great out the box.

But if you just stuck the Bilstein B12 on, Dave's NQSBBK and S3 rears you would have a much "better" car. If you then went with ARB's, WALK, TT Wishbones and Unibrace XB & UB you would again have a far QUICKER car without increasing power/torque.

I dont know if any members have children approaching 17 but if all they could afford was a 1.0 Fiesta but yet wanted to modify like Dad/Mum, they could make the car quicker/safer by spending all their money on tyres, brake upgrade/springs and dampers upgrade as opposed to going for some tacky drainpipe backbox and a K & N 57i

[Hedge]

Weight is only a contributory factor in the manufacturer fitting bigger brakes.

120 kg difference between MK6 GTI and .:R is roughly 10% but 210 to 270PS is nearly 30% increase of course they fitted them because it weighs more....

[RedRobin]

I dont know if any members have children approaching 17 but if all they could afford was a 1.0 Fiesta but yet wanted to modify like Dad/Mum, they could make the car quicker/safer by spending all their money on tyres, brake upgrade/springs and dampers upgrade as opposed to going for some tacky drainpipe backbox and a K & N 57i

....I know exactly what you mean! A neighbour's 19yo grandson had a bright red noisy Saxo with bodykit and was read the riot act by the local Police. His solution was to swop it for a black Seat Leon but then he added a huge white vinyl stripe down the bonnet and another baked bean can exhaust which has a truly horrible sound. I'm really hoping the Police will act soon.

However, my 21yo daughter is interested in a BMW Mini if she buys her own car after Uni and fancied a pink VW Beetle when she was 17.

[E30Dom]

Weight is only a contributory factor in the manufacturer fitting bigger brakes.

120 kg difference between MK6 GTI and .:R is roughly 10% but 210 to 270PS is nearly 30% increase of course they fitted them because it weighs more....

Something heavier travelling faster needs bigger brakes... it's a contribution of both...

[RedRobin]

Weight is only a contributory factor in the manufacturer fitting bigger brakes.

120 kg difference between MK6 GTI and .:R is roughly 10% but 210 to 270PS is nearly 30% increase of course they fitted them because it weighs more....

....Yep, it's pretty basic physics that the heavier an object is, the more energy/force is required to bring it to a halt when it's moving. And the faster it's moving..................  

Then there's also braking distances.

Better to have powerful brakes and not need them than to need them and not have them!

[berg]

I dont know if any members have children approaching 17 but if all they could afford was a 1.0 Fiesta but yet wanted to modify like Dad/Mum, they could make the car quicker/safer by spending all their money on tyres, brake upgrade/springs and dampers upgrade as opposed to going for some tacky drainpipe backbox and a K & N 57i

....I know exactly what you mean! A neighbour's 19yo grandson had a bright red noisy Saxo with bodykit and was read the riot act by the local Police. His solution was to swop it for a black Seat Leon but then he added a huge white vinyl stripe down the bonnet and another baked bean can exhaust which has a truly horrible sound. I'm really hoping the Police will act soon.

However, my 21yo daughter is interested in a BMW Mini if she buys her own car after Uni and fancied a pink VW Beetle when she was 17.

Exactly. Robin, can you not take him by the scruff of the neck and say "look son, i am the Modfather and will give you some advice. If you want your saxo/leon to be quicker without increasing power (and therefore having insurance implications) you should stick some eibach/h&r/kw/bilstein kit on, some premium tyres and bigger brakes front and rear. you will then be able to outbrake other cars in your class going into the McDonalds drive thru, and after you have picked up your burger be able to negotiate the exit quicker also" 

[Saintsteve]

Weight is only a contributory factor in the manufacturer fitting bigger brakes.

120 kg difference between MK6 GTI and .:R is roughly 10% but 210 to 270PS is nearly 30% increase of course they fitted them because it weighs more....

So why on the ed35 are they the very same brakes fitted from the old 197bhp gti Ian if your so correct and vw got it wrong ?

[Hedge]

Weight is only a contributory factor in the manufacturer fitting bigger brakes.

120 kg difference between MK6 GTI and .:R is roughly 10% but 210 to 270PS is nearly 30% increase of course they fitted them because it weighs more....

So why on the ed35 are they the very same brakes fitted from the old 197bhp gti Ian if your so correct and vw got it wrong ?

Who said VW got it wrong? As the Ed35 is a Mk6 it's best to compare it to the 210PS GTI Steve.

Not sure if there's a change in weight but only around a 10% increase in hp shouldn't make too much difference. However throw a remap at it and it becomes a whole different ball game.

25-30% increase in power (a bit like a Golf R which gains bigger brakes for the weight increase of a passenger) then better brakes need to happen. After all that's the criteria that VW use.

What happens if you add more than one passenger? You could easily add 3 or 4 passengers to a Golf adding 300 or 400 Kilos. What you're saying is because you have added weight that means you should then uprate the brakes.

[Saintsteve]

Weight is only a contributory factor in the manufacturer fitting bigger brakes.

120 kg difference between MK6 GTI and .:R is roughly 10% but 210 to 270PS is nearly 30% increase of course they fitted them because it weighs more....

So why on the ed35 are they the very same brakes fitted from the old 197bhp gti Ian if your so correct and vw got it wrong ?

Who said VW got it wrong? As the Ed35 is a Mk6 it's best to compare it to the 210PS GTI Steve.

Not sure if there's a change in weight but only around a 10% increase in hp shouldn't make too much difference. However throw a remap at it and it becomes a whole different ball game.

25-30% increase in power (a bit like a Golf R which gains bigger brakes for the weight increase of a passenger) then better brakes need to happen. After all that's the criteria that VW use.

What happens if you add more than one passenger? You could easily add 3 or 4 passengers to a Golf adding 300 or 400 Kilos. What you're saying is because you have added weight that means you should then uprate the brakes.

Ian, see your missing the whole point of my 1st post. I'm not talking about remaps here, I'm talking about a std car, without ANY mods at all. You've turned this all about talking about adding bits/remaps/adding weight (passengers) etc, when like the O.P was asking people's thoughts of a standard spec car and it's setup.

I say it again. VW got their choice right for its choice of components and the cars setup from the factory.. IMO !!

They put bigger brakes on the mk4 and mk5 R32 and Golf R due to the extra weight.....The mk4 R32 was 238bhp with larger calipers then the current lighter 235 Ed35 that as it goes is a lighter car...
Theyve been fitted the normal sized 312 brakes to the Std mk5 GTi, Ed30, std mk6 GTi, and now Ed35.. Can you not see that the two heavier cars are fitted with the larger brakes for the reason as they weigh more and require them to Stop. The other cars weigh less and in their calculations, used the smaller 312's.

I still think VW got it spot on from the off, and hence why it got such brilliant reviews by ALL journo's.

These cars are designed for the road ORIGONALLY, and not a test track/racing curcuit.

Please stop going on about remap this and x +y = MC hammer that, goes completely out the window when you add more power (modify) and add the factor of the weight of the car in question or model/type.

Hope you now understand FULLY my reply to the O.P's question and my response was thus.


 

[Hedge]

Off to bang my head against a brick wall as that's much more rewarding.

[Saintsteve]

Off to bang my head against a brick wall as that's much more rewarding.

 

welcome to the club....