Michelin Pilot Sport Two (PS2) 225/40/18 92Y Extra Load : Review

[Teutonic_Tamer]

You mean like lorries and tractors? But surely the tyres are designed to withstand such pressure on such vehicles?

In some occurances, yes, in others no.  And whilst truck tyres may be designed to carry extra weight, and the associated forces - the steel in the bead is identical to a normal car tyre, the carcass materials are the same, even the rubber is fairly similar.  And what is more interesting - truck and bus roadwheels are made to exactly the same set of standards and specifications as car roadwheels.

[RedRobin]

....So far - A varied journey on Tuesday of 512 miles and 100 today, both in all sorts of conditions and speeds - I have found that the pressures have only fluctuated about 3 psi. Whereas the tyre temperatures have fluctuated as much as 15ºC and the fronts are mostly hotter than the rears (as you would expect).

^ This is according to my TyreSure TPMS.

And have you noticed any difference, mainly in temperatures, between 'normal' driving - and then compared it with a few repeated heavy braking occurances (letting those big APs do some serious work ) ?

....As it's been very wet, I haven't had a proper opportunity to brake really hard and notice temps at the same time - I'll seek a safe opportunity in due course.

Putting aside the specific numeric values, it's very educational to see how things change relatively under different loading and conditions.

Of course in F1, races are won or lost according to tyre management and performance - It's a more specialist art/science.

[tony_danza]

Because you're never wrong, are you? - cough cough, "S3/R32 CATEGORICALLY WON'T FIT A GOLF GTI - FACT" cough.

Hey, what does that ignore button do??

Ahhhhhhh..... life is now good.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Because you're never wrong, are you? - cough cough, "S3/R32 CATEGORICALLY WON'T FIT A GOLF GTI - FACT" cough.

Erm . . . I have NEVER tried to state that I am never wrong.

And if you look back carfully through the forums on the S3/R32 rear brakes issue - yes, whilst it was my intial track of thought that they would not fit the GTI - I actually went to great pains to explain that that info came from various techs at my local VW stealer, and that I was just relaying their advice - just like what virtually every other person on this forum does (relays info from other sources).  For the record, I am actually GLAD that I was wrong on this issue - as it is a mod which I intend to do (once I finalise what is going on up front).  And if it makes you better - I offer you my personal appology for relaying such wrong information!

Hey, what does that ignore button do??

Ahhhhhhh..... life is now good.

Fine, if you like wearing blinkers, HAND and all that. 

But isn't it a little two-faced if you slag me off for getting things wrong, but YOU still can not admit you have this issue wrong - especially the max pressure issue!  Hey ho.

[Hedge]

Hey, what does that ignore button do??

Perhaps you can report on your findings? 

[tony_danza]

Hey, what does that ignore button do??

Perhaps you can report on your findings? 

Has he posted something?? I don't care, this is bliss....

I highly recommend ignoring him 

[RedRobin]

^^^^
Just to try to restore a little balance to this, it's very well known that Sean (TT) and I have had many 'arguments' in various car forums all over the internet. I occasionally find his way of expressing himself extremely irritating and I know that some of the info I post (in good faith) greatly irritates him.

However, I personally wouldn't hit the ignore button on him or indeed on anyone else. Subjects are very rarely black and white and someone else's opinion is always interesting even if you think it's bollox. Besides we're human and there is occasionally a perverse enjoyment in witnessing an argument.

But, the ignore button is there for each of us to have the freedom to use it.

Perhaps TT and tony_d should try to sort out their differences by PM - It's worked for me and TT in the past.

[Andy]

Finally I think running 44PSI is dangerous and I'm surprised you're recommending it. On a spirited drive I can see my pressures come up by around 4-6PSI depending on the weather, by that same reckoning, you'd be near or at the maximum limit of 50PSI and serious risk of tyre failure.

What an utter load of bollox!  I supposed you think I should get locked up for attempted manslaughter by running 85psi in my bicycle tyres!

HTF can 44psi be dangerous?  What about the 61psi in the space saver - do we have to have a 'Hazardous Substance' warning sticker on our tailgates!

The mind boggles how you can even post such statements!

I don't know, what does it say on the sidewall of your bicycle or the spacesaver regarding the maximimum permissable inflation?

 
Well then maybe you ought to check before making such sweeping statements as you did earlier in the thread.  Yes, sure, a bicycle tyre is a bit of an extreme and slighty irelevant example - but a spacesaver is categorically NOT irellevent!

I know for a FACT it says you DO NOT EXCEED 50PSI on the sidewall of a 225/40/18 Michelin PS2,

The you have just completely shot yourself - because that IS NOT RELEVENT TO UK OR EU MARKETS.  It form no legal requirements, nor no 'advisory' requirements either.  You are massively out of your depth in this particular issue!

and that is what we're talking about here after all... not bicycles, not egos, just PS2s.

You seem to be the one with the massive 'ego' problem.  Because you categorically DID NOT state we were just dealing with PS2s.  Talk about moving the goal posts!

You admit that tyre pressures can go up by a marked amount further up in this thread, yes? You therefore MUST accept that your tyres, at 44PSI when hot, will be reaching upwards of the tyre manufacturers MAXIMUM limit??

Am I wrong in that statement?

Of course you are wrong!  You are massively wrong - on two counts.

First, tyre pressures should ONLY be checked when the tyre is COLD.  Pressures are NOT the limiting factor.  It is the upper limits of tyre TEMPERATURES which are the limitiing factors - why the heck do you think that they don't bother with measuring the pressures - but DO measure temperatures - during motorsports meetings?

Secondy, simple laws of physics dictate that pressures will rise when a tyre heats up.  This is PERFECTLY NORMAL - and provding the temperature doesn't rise too much, is perfectly within design parameters.  Or do you not think that tyre manufacturers didn't realise that tyres get warm during use!

If you're happy to explrore the "thresholds" of the tyre, then fine - crack on.

So what do you think you are doing?  Pot, kettle and black come to mind. 

At least I have a professionally educated understanding of what I am doing!

If you're telling me I'm an idiot for running 2PSI under recommended when I've accounted for my tyres getting hotter than the fuel flaps "middle of the road" settings... why am I not granted the same threshold?

I never said you personally were an 'idiot'.  What I did say was that it is recommended never to go below the recommended settings.  And as I've also pointed out - they are just 'recommendations'.  Furthermore, in many other threads, I've explained the 'science' behind how tyre pressures can be 'adjusted' or tweaked.

And for the record, I don't have a problem with you personally running lower pressures - afterall, its your car, and your own 'butt dyno' should be giving you first hand feed back of what the car is doing.  But I do have a problem when peeps make a sweeping statement to others to lower their pressures - especially when there is a shed load of info in the public domain about how dangerous under-inflated tyres are.

In my opinion though, you are handing out dangerous advice to people clouded by an arrogance of 'having to be right', even when you probably know better.

But my advice is NOT dangerous.  My advice is supported by the Tyre Industry Council, along with all the major tyre manufacturers, and most modern car manufacturers - who ALL now state that cars should be run ALL the time on the 'full load' pressures (unless there is some exceptional over-riding reason not to).  Or do you also think that the TIC and all the tyre manufactures, and the vehicle manufacturers are wrong - and are giving out dangerous advice?

Immeadiately dropping to base level of insult and aggression is the act of a child, you should be ashamed of yourself.

Huh - black cooking items again.  Or is it just you who somehow has an absolute right to make unqualified dangerous statements - whilst being exempt from challenges?

to you find that running your tyre pressures  that high TT wear the middle of the tyre out quicker

[tony_danza]

What's to sort out, Robin?

I have simply exercised self censorship, much the same as when I deleted Radio 1 from my stereo.

As you say (well, you don’t actually, but I'm saying it in not so many words), he simply enjoys trolling various forums looking for an argument. A platform to ram his opinions down people's throats, no doubt because nobody will entertain him in real life.

Any question of his opinion whether correct or incorrect is met with aggression, shouting and insults, which I don't like. He especially doesn't seem to like sarcasm or being patronised, something I specialise in... but then the low skilled working classes never did appreciate sophisticated humour, that's why Bernard Manning's club was always full. Let's call it a clash of style.

If I ignore him, then I am no longer subjected to it, rather than getting embroiled in this farce - then I can't be accused of "baiting" him, admittedly something I have failed to resist the urge to do in this thread so far.

It’s for my own good, not his.

[Andy]

You mean like lorries and tractors? But surely the tyres are designed to withstand such pressure on such vehicles?

In some occurances, yes, in others no.  And whilst truck tyres may be designed to carry extra weight, and the associated forces - the steel in the bead is identical to a normal car tyre, the carcass materials are the same, even the rubber is fairly similar.  And what is more interesting - truck and bus roadwheels are made to exactly the same set of standards and specifications as car roadwheels.

the difference in car tyres is they are 4ply meaning the wire is 4x
vans tractors wagons are 6ply upwards meaning they can accept more tyre pressure
ie a trailer tye 195-50-13 is 8ply and takes 90psi

think this has gone a bit of topic now

[Andy]

golf gti on 225/45-17 91w tyres 32psi front 29psi rear
 laden speed 35psi front 41psi rear,these are taking out of the michelin tyre fitment book we have at work

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Perhaps TT and tony_d should try to sort out their differences by PM - It's worked for me and TT in the past.

I fear my PMs may be . . . . ignored!  

[Teutonic_Tamer]

to you find that running your tyre pressures  that high TT wear the middle of the tyre out quicker

Nope, not at all.  Not on the Dunflops, nor the PS2s as used on the GTI.  And on other cars when inflated higher than the recommended pressures - nor on ContiSportContact2s, nor Bridgestone S02, nor on Bridgestone ER30, nor on Bridgestone RE040, nor on the original Mich Pilot Sport, or the Pilot Exalto, or the Pilot SX, or the Pilot HX, not the Mich Energy, nor the Mich MXL, and nor the ContiEcoContact2, and nor the original ContiEcoContact, nor the Yokohama AVS Sport and AVS S1Z.  So I have very considerable experience, over many, many years - of knowing it is perfectly safe, and does not produce any adverse or uneven wear - when running on a whole load of different tyres - at much higher pressures.

Actually, there was one tyre which did - and that was the Pirelli P Zero Rosso (from my RS4) - but then you had to run them high to get some semblence of stability.  And when I binned them, there was a total lack of carcass strength - not only in the sidewalls, but more scarily in the tread area too.  They were fairly light though.  And come to think of it - EVERY flavour of Pirelli tyre has always been increadibly pressure sensitive in terms of even tread wear.

HTH

[Teutonic_Tamer]

You mean like lorries and tractors? But surely the tyres are designed to withstand such pressure on such vehicles?

In some occurances, yes, in others no.  And whilst truck tyres may be designed to carry extra weight, and the associated forces - the steel in the bead is identical to a normal car tyre, the carcass materials are the same, even the rubber is fairly similar.  And what is more interesting - truck and bus roadwheels are made to exactly the same set of standards and specifications as car roadwheels.

the difference in car tyres is they are 4ply meaning the wire is 4x
vans tractors wagons are 6ply upwards meaning they can accept more tyre pressure
ie a trailer tye 195-50-13 is 8ply and takes 90psi

Yes, agreed to a certain extent about the ply ratings.  But when you look at a 4ply car tyre - which can carry say a 2.5 tonne car (fully loaded - total mass shared by all tyres) - doubling the ply rating to 8ply doesn't give you a total of 5 tonnes - but will actually take you into the 44 tonne realms (yes, there will be more wheels - but it is still possible to get a two axle tractor unit with just twin-rears above the fifth wheel) - it is actually the 'air pressure' which supports the load, not the 'ply rating'.  Anyway - this is wayyyy to geeky for a PS2 thread.

think this has gone a bit of topic now

Not me, M'Lud, honest! 

[Teutonic_Tamer]

golf gti on 225/45-17 91w tyres 32psi front 29psi rear
 laden speed 35psi front 41psi rear,these are taking out of the michelin tyre fitment book we have at work

Sadly, the Michelin Car Tyre Fitment and Pressure Guide (I have one on my desk as I type) has some fundamental errors (covered by their 'obligatory' disclaimer) - because they list the Mk5 GTI as being available with 16" rims - in the UK market.

And regarding their stated tyre pressures - allow me to quote verbatum:

"The tyre pressures given in this book are for indication only.

Please refer to the vehicle manufacturer's advice (eg in the vehicle handbook, on the door pillar or fuel filler cap) for the specific tyre pressure information on a particular vehicle."

So it is pretty irellivent what Michelin themselves recommend.  Those pressures recommended by tyre manufactures are generally just a 'ball park' figure for lazy tyre fitters, or tyre fitters who don't have access to the handbook or whatever.