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Author Topic: forge twintake air intake available end Aug 09  (Read 94658 times)

Offline RedRobin

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Re: forge twintake air intake available end Aug 09
« Reply #315 on: November 10, 2009, 02:19:47 pm »
.....

Whilst searching for some specific MAF info about the Twintake, here's some other info from Mike @ Forge which offers explanations about how twin filters work : -

"There are other benefits to a twin filter setup; rather having the largest possible surface area to the filtering media. Consider that a given filter size will pose a given level of restriction to airflow, based primarily on the density of the filtering media. This will result in a given level of vacuum after the filter. Two identical filters, of the same level of restriction, applied to the same application as in this case, will double the effective airflow possible by decreasing the restriction by roughly half. This will equate to more power potential."

HTH - Now back onto my searching..............


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Offline bacillus

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Re: forge twintake air intake available end Aug 09
« Reply #316 on: November 10, 2009, 02:30:13 pm »
iirc the MAF ID is 70mm for the twintake...  :smiley:
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Offline Hurdy

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Re: forge twintake air intake available end Aug 09
« Reply #317 on: November 10, 2009, 02:54:32 pm »
I'd love to see some flow figures for the Twintake.

Anything over 290g/s at 6900rpm and I'd be interested. :jumping:



what were the flow figures for the ITG on stevep's car

We need to wait on SteveP for that as I think the last set of flow rates didn't go up to 6900rpm.

The EVOM's intake I have flows around 280-285g/s.

A rough calculation of flow rate at 0.8 / g/s gives the bhp of the car, so on a Stage 2+ ED30......

280 / 0.8 = 350bhp
285 / 0.8 = 356.25bhp
290 / 0.8 = 362.5bhp
295 / 0.8 = 368.75bhp

Only a rough calculation, but generally close.

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Offline KRL

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Re: forge twintake air intake available end Aug 09
« Reply #318 on: November 10, 2009, 03:14:21 pm »
^ Yes but you can't trust those figures Hurdy because the EVOMS does not have a 67mm MAF housing.

Offline Hurdy

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Re: forge twintake air intake available end Aug 09
« Reply #319 on: November 10, 2009, 03:19:06 pm »
^ Yes but you can't trust those figures Hurdy because the EVOMS does not have a 67mm MAF housing.

This is true. With a larger diameter MAF pipe it most likely would be flowing more :confused:
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Offline RedRobin

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Re: forge twintake air intake available end Aug 09
« Reply #320 on: November 10, 2009, 03:23:33 pm »

iirc the MAF ID is 70mm for the twintake...  :smiley:


....Aha! That 70mm value rings bells but there's so much stuff to wade through to find it myself. You are usually correct in the info you post, bacillus.  

:happy2:


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Offline RedRobin

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Re: forge twintake air intake available end Aug 09
« Reply #321 on: November 10, 2009, 03:30:15 pm »

^ Yes but you can't trust those figures Hurdy because the EVOMS does not have a 67mm MAF housing.


This is true. With a larger diameter MAF pipe it most likely would be flowing more :confused:


....I'm probably barking up the wrong tree, but does the MAF dia consequently influence plotted results on a rolling-road?

Sorry if it's a stoopid question - I'm a bit confused by how important the MAF size is or not and I still need to read APR Keith's posts about it.


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Offline Hedge

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Re: forge twintake air intake available end Aug 09
« Reply #322 on: November 10, 2009, 03:41:16 pm »
^ Yes but you can't trust those figures Hurdy because the EVOMS does not have a 67mm MAF housing.

Really? I thought it was standard size.  :surprised:

Offline Hurdy

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Re: forge twintake air intake available end Aug 09
« Reply #323 on: November 10, 2009, 03:42:48 pm »

^ Yes but you can't trust those figures Hurdy because the EVOMS does not have a 67mm MAF housing.


This is true. With a larger diameter MAF pipe it most likely would be flowing more :confused:


....I'm probably barking up the wrong tree, but does the MAF dia consequently influence plotted results on a rolling-road?

Sorry if it's a stoopid question - I'm a bit confused by how important the MAF size is or not and I still need to read APR Keith's posts about it.

The MAF diameter has nothing to do with the RR results you get.

The MAF sensor measures flow based upon the set OEM inside cross-sectional area (CSA) of the MAF housing.

The MAF measures speed and the calculation with the MAF housing CSA gives a resultant volume of air passing at that point in time.

If the MAF housing is larger than stock then the MAF will still measure the actual speed of air being drawn in but will still use the OEM CSA of the MAF housing to calculate the volume flow instead of the larger CSA of the aftermarket intake.

The problem with going much larger will be that the air fuel ratio (AFR) will be wrong and could cause running issues with the car, like running lean,hot etc.

 :happy2:

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Offline KRL

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Re: forge twintake air intake available end Aug 09
« Reply #324 on: November 10, 2009, 03:43:30 pm »
The info you seek is in this very thread  :smiley:

I posted about MAF houses sizes and the problems a wrong MAF housing size can cause here:
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6546.msg114369#msg114369

Then Keith posted a load more info about how APR calibrate the MAF tables here:
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6546.msg115074#msg115074
« Last Edit: November 10, 2009, 04:01:12 pm by KRL »

Offline RedRobin

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Re: forge twintake air intake available end Aug 09
« Reply #325 on: November 10, 2009, 05:11:17 pm »

The MAF sensor measures flow based upon the set OEM inside cross-sectional area (CSA) of the MAF housing.

The MAF measures speed and the calculation with the MAF housing CSA gives a resultant volume of air passing at that point in time.

If the MAF housing is larger than stock then the MAF will still measure the actual speed of air being drawn in but will still use the OEM CSA of the MAF housing to calculate the volume flow instead of the larger CSA of the aftermarket intake.

The problem with going much larger will be that the air fuel ratio (AFR) will be wrong and could cause running issues with the car, like running lean,hot etc.


....Thanks for explaining that, John.

So, the MAF isn't SMART technology but does its calculations according to OEM presets which don't take aftermarket air intakes into account.

However, if the AFR plots an undesirable shape on a rolling-road, the remap can be adjusted accordingly to possibly solve the problem. JKM have done exactly that via my Revo settings but that's not the same as recalibrating ECU tables of information (is it?). But it would appear that some tuners such as APR do take the MAF into account in their code by using the recalibration method.

So by strictly adhering to the OEM 67mm MAF dia, ITG may have an important advantage.

I want to try and get some comments on the Twintake's MAF solution from Forge.

Given the retail cost of many of the aftermarket high-flow tubular air intakes, you would have thought that most of them would have bothered to get piping manufactured which matched the OEM 67mm size!


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Offline bacillus

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Re: forge twintake air intake available end Aug 09
« Reply #326 on: November 10, 2009, 05:30:18 pm »
you would have thought that most of them would have bothered to get piping manufactured which matched the OEM 67mm size!


Indeed
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Offline jonnyc

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Re: forge twintake air intake available end Aug 09
« Reply #327 on: November 10, 2009, 05:34:26 pm »
you would have thought that most of them would have bothered to get piping manufactured which matched the OEM 67mm size!


Indeed

The point is that it works though, there are zero issues and it makes good power.. So whats the problem??  :confused:

Its a similar situation to people complaining of the RS4 injectors, the point is, 90% of highest HP 2.0T FSI cars run on them faultlessly, so again, where is the issue?

Sorry if that comes over as a rant, its not, just confused thats all.. I don't see the point in discussing it over and over..
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Offline Tfsi_Mike

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Re: forge twintake air intake available end Aug 09
« Reply #328 on: November 10, 2009, 05:39:59 pm »

Says on Forge web site not available yet for leon Cupra :sad:

Offline jonnyc

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Re: forge twintake air intake available end Aug 09
« Reply #329 on: November 10, 2009, 05:40:55 pm »

Says on Forge web site not available yet for leon Cupra :sad:

There working hard on the fitments, if you like I can see what I can do for you.. You could be 'the chosen one' if you know what I mean..
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