Engine mounts - the Teutonic_Tamer method . . .

[vRS Carl]

TT where are these pics

[Teutonic_Tamer]

If you don't like it give vwr a call and ask them as you might as well ask them instead of complaining about it

So you think shafting others is acceptable? 

And for the record - this is NOT me slagging off VWR - as I rate many of their activities extremely highly - namely their motorsport operations.    And I think Sam Roach is a top bloke.    But just 'cause I like some aspects of a company, and not others - that doesn't mean I should have a totally polarised opinion of them!

And yes, their customer service is good too, as is their speed of product despatch. 

[MAT ED30]

I think i like shafting others  only kidding but like I said TT give sam a call and I am sure he will be more than happy to tell the answers to your ????

[john_o]

lets not sully a good thread with the 'usual' ...

nice work TT. some good points , I think stokeballon also mentioned that the side mounts were the biggest culprits too going against the idea of the lower being the primary strain taker. cant visualise in my head why but fact is more proof than theory lol

personally i think silicone is a cop out, when you could have created some dynamic engine mounts ala the new porsche's design 

you plan to post up instructions / proper part no's for others to follow the DIY?

Why would I use new mounts as a basis for the mod and not my old 'well used' ones out of interest?

[gazbutS3]

lets not sully a good thread with the 'usual' ...

nice work TT. some good points , I think stokeballon also mentioned that the side mounts were the biggest culprits too going against the idea of the lower being the primary strain taker. cant visualise in my head why but fact is more proof than theory lol

personally i think silicone is a cop out, when you could have created some dynamic engine mounts ala the new porsche's design 

you plan to post up instructions / proper part no's for others to follow the DIY?

Why would I use new mounts as a basis for the mod and not my old 'well used' ones out of interest?

could be the 4 week curing time John, you would either be car less  for 4 weeks or be forced to buy a new set to run with in the mean time?????

[Hedge]

They are still on the JKM website. 

[john_o]

aaah good point gaz  duh 

[Teutonic_Tamer]

I think i like shafting others  only kidding but like I said TT give sam a call and I am sure he will be more than happy to tell the answers to your ????

I don't doubt you in the slightest - I'm quite sure Sam would tell me.    But that doesn't make it any better that someone (whoever it may be) stoped JKM selling them too. 

Anyway, like I said, I don't want this to get into a traders slanging match. 

[Teutonic_Tamer]

lets not sully a good thread with the 'usual' ...

nice work TT. some good points , I think stokeballon also mentioned that the side mounts were the biggest culprits too going against the idea of the lower being the primary strain taker. cant visualise in my head why but fact is more proof than theory lol

I can see where peeps are coming from.  Yes, the lower rear mount should be the 'primary taker' of the torque reaction strain - and indeed it is.  However, as much as we slag and beef about the OEM lower rear mount, it actually has fairly limited tollerance for movement - even when totally shagged.  There is probabaly only about 3-4mm each way (back and forth) in the lower mount - which is what the cheaper options of the poly inserts fill quite well (be they a very poorly engineered solution).

But both the side mounts have about 4 times the amount of play in them.  Now, 4 times doesn't sound that much - but think how they are are being acted upon.  With the lower rear, it is being acted upon at the very extreme of the engine (the furthest away from any imaginary 'centre pivot') so basically with the lower mount - what you get is what you see.  But the two side mounts are probably as close to the 'centre pivot' as possible.  Lets for example say there is 16mm movement each way - multiply 16mm by the length of the 'pivot' (so that is from the centre of the side mounts, to say the bottom of the sump) - then you can see why the two side mounts have a far greater effect than many may actually think.

personally i think silicone is a cop out,

Huh - why?  Silicone filling of voided engine mounts has long been the de-facto way of stiffening mounts on Group N cars (rallying and circuit racing) which need to keep OEM parts.

when you could have created some dynamic engine mounts ala the new porsche's design 

You lost me there . . .

you plan to post up instructions / proper part no's for others to follow the DIY?

What, for the whole shebang, or just my silicone mods?

Why would I use new mounts as a basis for the mod and not my old 'well used' ones out of interest?

Two reasons - firstly, the silicone really does need at least 2 weeks, ideally 4, to properly cure - you are talking about prolly 3inch thick silicone - and mine were still vinegar stinky after about 6 weeks - so can you prop up your engine on bricks for that long whilst they go off?  Secondly, my old engine mounts were well and truely fooooked - when you use silicone, you are actually supplementing the existing rubber in the mounts - so if the existing rubber is past its sell by, then you are only really doing half a job.

Time for kip now . . . 

[Teutonic_Tamer]

They are still on the JKM website. 

The lower rear one ain't.  JKM had to remove it after I discussed with them.  They only have the Vibra Technics side mounts - because they still have stock of these - http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/tfsimotormounts.htm#tfsi

Oh and don't buy those THS FR3 lower rear mounts from JKM either - they are fundamentally identical to how I modified a set of new OEM mounts - these still need that VW special workshop tool to pre-shrink them before pressing into the subframe - so you will be cursing trying to fit them.

[john_o]

Cheers shaun 

theory on amount of relative amounts of movement seems sound.

RE: silicon a cop out / porsche active mounts , I was making a joke that it was too easy for a man of your talents  and that you could have copied porsche
Porsche Active Engine Mounts linky

[RedRobin]

Now with correctly set adjustable ARBs and properly restrained ponies - there is no need for a Quaife.

Oh, final comment to report - I too now hear the 'whine' from my DSG in 2nd gear - I think this was also reported by RedRobin.

....I agree with your findings about the big benefits of these engine mounts but am surprised by your Quaife comment. I can see how the mounts would lessen the work the Quaife needs to do but I need convincing that a Quaife is of no benefit when such engine mounts are installed. Or am I taking your words too literally?

Obviously it's reassuring and good to know you're hearing the same (or similar) 'whine' as on my car. There's absolutely no effect on performance that I can detect due to the 'whine'. Fortunately I'm someone like Mat who actually enjoys all the added sounds from the engine bay - As one becomes familiar it becomes easy to spot any changes in sounds which may herald a problem which needs solving. I absolutely hate quiet cars! 

[john_o]

anyone got a pic of the mount split apart ?
I cant quite picture where the voids are and how the mount moves (car side vs engine side)

from this page
http://www.thsperformance.co.uk/product/FR3_TOP_Engine_Mounts_1.8_TFSI_2.0T_FSI%7CTDI_THSFR3-MK5TOP
I found, but it still doesnt quite make sense


does the other side just slot in ?

[revo carl]

The lower rear one ain't.  JKM had to remove it after I discussed with them.  They only have the Vibra Technics side mounts - because they still have stock of these - http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/tfsimotormounts.htm#tfsi

Oh and don't buy those THS FR3 lower rear mounts from JKM either - they are fundamentally identical to how I modified a set of new OEM mounts - these still need that VW special workshop tool to pre-shrink them before pressing into the subframe - so you will be cursing trying to fit them.

I fitted some BETA FR3 lower mounts happily on the bench with a vice and a "improvised" press took me no more than 1hr 30mins from start to finish....don't see why you would have so many problems....

[vRSAlex]

The lower rear one ain't.  JKM had to remove it after I discussed with them.  They only have the Vibra Technics side mounts - because they still have stock of these - http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/tfsimotormounts.htm#tfsi

Oh and don't buy those THS FR3 lower rear mounts from JKM either - they are fundamentally identical to how I modified a set of new OEM mounts - these still need that VW special workshop tool to pre-shrink them before pressing into the subframe - so you will be cursing trying to fit them.

I fitted some BETA FR3 lower mounts happily on the bench with a vice and a "improvised" press took me no more than 1hr 30mins from start to finish....don't see why you would have so many problems....

Im with Carl on this one TT.  I have fitted the THS mounts with no issues.  We just charge 1 hour for the lower mount.  Carl did well to get it done in a vise in around 1 1/2 hours.  I agree that it would be easier to shrink them first, but even unshrunk they still go in with no loss of plastic.

I wish we could get the VT mounts direct from VT as they are another good option.  Even our trade price from 'Racingline' is crazy expensive, so we just dont bother.