ECS Dogbone Mount Insert
Why
Standard VW layout for engine mounts and composition of lower engine mount leads to excess engine movement under various conditions.
This insert fills the void in the standard lower mount , thereby removing some level of 'slack'.
Suits a std car , but is considered of greater use when additional torque from a remap is added.
Sourcing
Any good GTI tuner will stock these.
I got mine from Awesome GTI
http://www.awesome-gti.co.uk/product.php?xProd=6803&xSec=158
(http://www.awesome-gti.co.uk/shopimages/products/normal/en_ecs_bu_trans_mk5.jpg)
ECS Tuning is proud to release it's dogbone mount insert for the Mk5 platform. The ECS dogbone mount insert works with the OEM rubber bushing to provide a better more rigid connection between the transmission mount and subframe. Less movement in the system will result in smoother shifts and less engine movement under heavy acceleration. Made of a 70A Torque durometer. Kit includes dogbone insert, retaining washer, centering washer and new stretch bolt.
Around Ã,£25
I believe theres also a cheap link available from the USA
Fitting
Easy
Remove old bolt , lube up the new insert and fit.
Minimal charge from garage if you dont want to do it.
Only caveat is you need space under the car , so be SAFE!
Other versions
Various other forms of the dogbone are available from other tuners
e.g. Neuspeed (doesnt include the bolt) which can also be of varying rubber hardness.
I have also seen some metal based inserts but these are probably too hard to general road use.
A new bolt can be bought from VW , no concensus as to whether its a one time only stretch bolt or not (although ECS info above states it is!)
Plus Points
Considerably reduces engine movement under all conditions
Car feels tighter
May lead to reduced wheelspin and better control as transition from decel to accel can be made smoother.
Reduced wheel hop /axle tramp type vibrations
Fabulous cost/benefit ratio
Can easily be reversed if reqd
Vastly improves the clutch judder I used to have at the biting point
Minus Points
Does increase the level of vibration felt through pedals/handbrake , although this is very minimal.
For me its not even a consideration.
Summary
This is how it should have come from the factory : GET ONE : :happy2:
Nice write up John_o (http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm104/tomashandmilly/images-4.jpg)
Any chance of that long awaited write up of the anti-lift kit. Cough cough. :chicken:
Quote from: Top Cat on November 12, 2008, 02:03:22 PM
Nice write up John_o (http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm104/tomashandmilly/images-4.jpg)
x2 :happy2:
x 3 :happy2:
Got mine and Im very happy with it! No additional vibration either :wink:
x4, had them in both my GTi's and got 1 in the S3, cheap effective mod
(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm104/tomashandmilly/images-4.jpg)
^^^^ Love the hand, TC!!
John - I have the Neuspeed version on DSG GTI and have experienced no vibration at all.
[Do you think I need new batteries? :evilgrin:]
nicee i want one :(
Quote from: bennylenny88 on November 14, 2008, 01:39:13 PM
nicee i want one :(
....You can get one free if you buy a Milltek performance exhaust.
Hey thats not a bad deal is it, nearly a grand to stop engine movement. :laugh: :laugh:
lol i do need a exhaust system though hmmm :P
Quote from: bennylenny88 on November 14, 2008, 02:14:23 PM
lol i do need a exhaust system though hmmm :P
Ok i will shut up and leave you in RedRobins capable hands good luck. :rolleye:
(http://daz.co/media/b308/RedRobin_05/BlackTips.jpg)
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b308/RedRobin_05/JesusSaysModify.jpg)
:evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin:
(http://daz.co/media/b308/RedRobin_05/BrokenExhaustMount.jpg)
^ This is what can happen without a Torque Insert - A broken exhaust mount bracket. It's surprising how much twist movement the GTI engine has.
mines a 1.4 thou :(
The engine will still move about pal, maybe not so much, but it will move
^^^^
And if it's mounted so tightly that it doesn't move, then you and your passengers will be the ones who move!! Vibrate to kingdom come!
do these fit "dis-ease-els?"
Don't see why not JPC?, I don't see any engine specific details on the sales blurb - ask Awesome?
I got an ECS one fitted to mine on Friday during its pre-track checks. I have noticed the tiniest bit of vibration when in slow traffic and just using DSG's crawl (i.e. just lifting off the brake and not giving any throttle) but other than that nothing else. Launching is more positive and it blends nicely with my other mods.
Seal of approval here.
It's definitely a good bang for the buck but needs moar stiffness (that's what she said)
BSH are releasing new replacement mounts in the new year...
i think we all have to admit that not all our mods produce good results per Ã,£ ? i fitted the new speed version a while back and think its the best mod so far , you can really feel the difference , if your thinking about getting one ....... just do it :happy2:
I put the ECS insert in my GTI last week. I'm enjoying having little to no wheelhop. I needed to change my oil anyway so I figured I'd pick one of these up & have a go at it. Simple install, effective results! :happy2:
....
The only reason I fitted one was to protect my exhaust mounts but I can't tell any real difference in traction etc.
Quote from: RedRobin on January 06, 2009, 10:31:13 PM
....
The only reason I fitted one was to protect my exhaust mounts but I can't tell any real difference in traction etc.
x2
got it fitted yesterday, cant feel much/any difference but is good to know its there and helping and for the price its a no-brainer.
gets a thumbs up from me :happy2:
Anyone know of a step giude to fitting??
Received mine this morning :evilgrin:
Quote from: The wheel man on February 04, 2009, 12:38:56 PM
Anyone know of a step giude to fitting??
Received mine this morning :evilgrin:
Lube it up and stick it in there. It's quite tight, so you may need to use a fair amount of force. Really ram it in there and wedge it home.
as im a total dumb ass..... im not even sure where i "Ram it in"...... and no, before there are any smart remarks, thats not what i tell the girls :rolleye: :grin:
This should help. It is for the Neuspeed one but still applies.
http://www.neuspeed.com/data/installs/22.10.91.pdf
Anyone got the part number for the new stretch bolt? Thank you please! :laugh:
I found it so for anyone else its a 21mm hex bolt with VW part number N105 580 01
Quote from: Hedge on February 04, 2009, 03:57:34 PM
This should help. It is for the Neuspeed one but still applies.
http://www.neuspeed.com/data/installs/22.10.91.pdf
Nice one.... Thanks :happy2:
Fitted on Saturday and although ive not span the wheels (or tried) i can tell a difference in the way the car 'Feels' im not getting any vibration and the car has a solid feel now, almost feels as though the car changer gear better, more accurate.....
Could be the placebo effect but for Ã,£35 and 5 mins fitting im well impressed :happy2:
going gettting it fitted in 5 mins FINALLY lol
Got mine fitted on sat, Very impressed tbh. Not getting any vibration at all and the car feels more solid when accelerating and changing gear.
Im thinking of getting the torque arm insert now to match with the dog bone, has anyone else done this and has there been much benefit?
Dan
Quote from: dan.payne on February 09, 2009, 01:02:11 PM
Got mine fitted on sat, Very impressed tbh. Not getting any vibration at all and the car feels more solid when accelerating and changing gear.
Im thinking of getting the torque arm insert now to match with the dog bone, has anyone else done this and has there been much benefit?
Dan
Hmm, I'm a little confused here as I thought that both were the same...
Im not overly sure myself but it is listed on the awesome site:
http://www.awesome-gti.co.uk/section.php?xSec=158
In fact I think I have my wires crossed its just Neuspeed as opposed to ESC lol :embarrassed:
it took 2 hours to get it fitted.. luckly it was my mate who did it so he didnt charge me :)
the smaller arms didnt want to go in..
lots more judder but the car feels tighter around corners :)
2 hours to fit?! It took me 15 minutes to do mine!
yeah... the smaller legs wouldnt go in...
ordered one yesterday from awesome, sounds easy enuff to fit, gonna give it a bash on the weekend :happy2:
(no puns please) :P
just give a bit of lube before fitting, makes it slide in easier :happy2:
Quote from: gazbutmk5gti on February 10, 2009, 05:24:49 PM
just give a bit of lube before fitting, makes it slide in easier :happy2:
2nd that!! I lubed the insert and in the holes they went into, slid in nice................
^^^^
Dog, bone, mount, insert, lube, holes, slide.....I'm trying very hard NOT to think the thoughts which come into my mind! :evilgrin:
^^^ :signLOL:
Got a lil summit summit through the post today :jumpmove:
(http://daz.co/media/oo246/vwrascal56/SNC11165.jpg)
gonna lube it up and slide it in sometime this weekend :P, this modding game is slighty addictive :party:
Good luck and take care whilst under your car.
Which one should I go for... the ECS one or the Neuspeed one.
Incidentally, Neuspeed list two different torque arm inserts (see link below)...anyone know what that is about?
http://www.neuspeed.com/products/product_list.asp?app=106|GV&type=23<ype=ns_euro
P.S. Gonna order one as soon as I get these queries resolved... and thanks for the installation guide.
P.P.S. Great article - thanks everyone!
Quote from: xxx_mojo_xxx on April 01, 2009, 10:05:30 PM
Which one should I go for... the ECS one or the Neuspeed one.
Incidentally, Neuspeed list two different torque arm inserts (see link below)...anyone know what that is about?
http://www.neuspeed.com/products/product_list.asp?app=106|GV&type=23<ype=ns_euro
P.S. Gonna order one as soon as I get these queries resolved... and thanks for the installation guide.
P.P.S. Great article - thanks everyone!
I got told by Amd essex that they are identical apart from logo on washer :happy2:
Quote from: vwrascal on April 01, 2009, 10:08:45 PM
Quote from: xxx_mojo_xxx on April 01, 2009, 10:05:30 PM
Which one should I go for... the ECS one or the Neuspeed one.
Incidentally, Neuspeed list two different torque arm inserts (see link below)...anyone know what that is about?
http://www.neuspeed.com/products/product_list.asp?app=106|GV&type=23<ype=ns_euro
P.S. Gonna order one as soon as I get these queries resolved... and thanks for the installation guide.
P.P.S. Great article - thanks everyone!
I got told by Amd essex that they are identical apart from logo on washer :happy2:
Two totally different bushes.
http://www.neuspeed.com/products/product_details.asp?app=106|GV&type=23<ype=ns_euro&p_id=2047 (http://www.neuspeed.com/products/product_details.asp?app=106%7CGV&type=23<ype=ns_euro&p_id=2047)
The above is for 2009 and on cars. Looks to be a more substantial bush too!
http://www.neuspeed.com/products/product_details.asp?app=106|GV&type=23<ype=ns_euro&p_id=1962 (http://www.neuspeed.com/products/product_details.asp?app=106%7CGV&type=23<ype=ns_euro&p_id=1962)
The above is for cars up to 2008.
Bought one ages ago and still haven't fitted it - need to pull my finger out !
Quote from: garethmk1 on April 02, 2009, 12:14:31 AM
need to pull my finger out !
and put two fingers in :wink: :happy2:
Thanks for getting back stokeballon.
My car was bought in Sept 08. Is there any chance VW may have changed things so I would need to go for the 2009 one?
Or is that reserve for the new MK6 Golfs?
Quote from: xxx_mojo_xxx on April 02, 2009, 09:05:40 AM
Thanks for getting back stokeballon.
My car was bought in Sept 08. Is there any chance VW may have changed things so I would need to go for the 2009 one?
Or is that reserve for the new MK6 Golfs?
.....Mo, I think you may have got confused - These parts are aftermarket (Neuspeed) and not VW parts.
HTH (Hope This Helps)
Robin
Hi Robin,
Just to clarify...I realise the "torque inserts" are aftermarket mods. Just need to be sure that the one I get from Neuspeed is the right one.
The two listed on Neuspeed are supposedly for the MK5 GTi, but they look distinctively different, and as I have a late 08 MK5 GTi - I thought I may need the revised insert.
Hope this makes sense....
IIRC...the Neuspeed doesn't come with a bolt, whereas the ECS does. I have the ECS on mine.
OK, I'm going for the ECS one... Being a bargain hunter where is the cheapest place to buy this "butt plug", oops, sorry torque insert.
Quote from: xxx_mojo_xxx on April 02, 2009, 11:19:11 AM
OK, I'm going for the ECS one... Being a bargain hunter where is the cheapest place to buy this "butt plug", oops, sorry torque insert.
I suspect you'll have to pay Awesome's price for it.
^^^^
Retailers in the motorsport trade are very hard hit atm (so are other businesses offering imported goods) by the exchange rates. With some products it simply isn't viable stocking and selling them.
It's just that, rightly or wrongly, I have the impression that Awesome prices are on the steep side.
In any case, I've ordered it from them...
Quote from: stokeballoon on April 01, 2009, 10:18:37 PM
Two totally different bushes.
http://www.neuspeed.com/products/product_details.asp?app=106|GV&type=23<ype=ns_euro&p_id=2047 (http://www.neuspeed.com/products/product_details.asp?app=106%7CGV&type=23<ype=ns_euro&p_id=2047)
The above is for 2009 and on cars. Looks to be a more substantial bush too!
http://www.neuspeed.com/products/product_details.asp?app=106|GV&type=23<ype=ns_euro&p_id=1962 (http://www.neuspeed.com/products/product_details.asp?app=106%7CGV&type=23<ype=ns_euro&p_id=1962)
The above is for cars up to 2008.
Quote from: vwrascal on April 01, 2009, 10:08:45 PM
Quote from: xxx_mojo_xxx on April 01, 2009, 10:05:30 PM
Which one should I go for... the ECS one or the Neuspeed one.
Incidentally, Neuspeed list two different torque arm inserts (see link below)...anyone know what that is about?
http://www.neuspeed.com/products/product_list.asp?app=106|GV&type=23<ype=ns_euro
P.S. Gonna order one as soon as I get these queries resolved... and thanks for the installation guide.
P.P.S. Great article - thanks everyone!
I got told by Amd essex that they are identical apart from logo on washer :happy2:
I was answering that question stokey boy :P
:angry015: :angry015:
Quote from: vwrascal on April 02, 2009, 07:28:45 PM
I was answering that question stokey boy :P
i read this....................... :grin: :P :drinking:
Quote from: xxx_mojo_xxx on April 02, 2009, 05:05:15 PM
It's just that, rightly or wrongly, I have the impression that Awesome prices are on the steep side.
In any case, I've ordered it from them...
Hi
The main problem we have at the moment is the exchange rate
The Ã,£ against the $ is very very poor , and the price on shipping items in has gone up extreamly high
So to this , we have had to tighten our belts
Then when they come in to this country....well , we get the import duty :surprised: and that is enough to scare and make a saint swear!!!$39.95 these are om ECS`s web site , then the shipping and then the import duty , I dont think that is too bad when it comes to our price
Sarah
Exchange rates are poo...
But if it helps, Powerflex do one for Ã,£16.74 inc VAT - just buy a new bolt from the dealers. They're good enough for Milltek, as that's what they supply with the exhausts.
:happy2:
Cheers folks... I thought I'd go for the ECS one from Awesome as it had all the bits.
Quote from: tony_danza on April 03, 2009, 09:21:43 AM
Exchange rates are poo...
But if it helps, Powerflex do one for Ã,£16.74 inc VAT - just buy a new bolt from the dealers. They're good enough for Milltek, as that's what they supply with the exhausts.
:happy2:
Hi
Yes Milltek supply these with their exhausts , but to be fair , we fitted a downpipe yesterday and the Powerflex part that came with it , we did not fit it
The guy wanted the ECS one instead
We supply a number of different items as not everyone wants the same
The MK4 dog mount from Powerflex we do at Ã,£13 ish , and the majority of Skoda drivers like the Superpro , 3 times the price , but it is down to personal taste
Sarah
Hi Sarah,
Does the Superpro fit the GTi, and why is it so much more?
On the MK4`s yes they do , but to be fair , we are just looking at being a Super pro dealer
Suppose you can never offer too many variations!!!!!
But to be fair , the Skoda lot seem to think that Superpro does not vibrate as much on the deisel`s
Sarah
Mine's in having its post track day checks and apparently the ECS mount is royally f***ed.
I'll have some pics later, but at less than 5k/6 months old - it'll be being sent back for a refund. Lucky I had another to replace it.
:confused:
Quote from: tony_danza on April 08, 2009, 02:23:32 PM
Mine's in having its post track day checks and apparently the ECS mount is royally f***ed.
I'll have some pics later, but at less than 5k/6 months old - it'll be being sent back for a refund. Lucky I had another to replace it.
:confused:
:confused: :confused: pics :party:
Utter turd, it has fallen apart.
(http://daz.co/media/e123/robertsm2006/P1020587.jpg)
(http://daz.co/media/e123/robertsm2006/P1020591.jpg)
(http://daz.co/media/e123/robertsm2006/P1020592.jpg)
0.o
That doesn't bode well... I should inspect mine soon.
I was planning on replacing with the BSH kit anyway...
well i agree it hasnt held up well
BUT
the important 'finger' bits that fill in the voids on the OE mount look to be OK and therefore functioning ok ?
Quote from: john_o on April 08, 2009, 06:58:37 PM
well i agree it hasnt held up well
BUT
the important 'finger' bits that fill in the voids on the OE mount look to be OK and therefore functioning ok ?
Agreed, but at only 6 months old, that's pretty bad. The disc holds the fingers and as soon as that's gone, the fingers will possibly come out of their void positions?
I'd be interested in seeing some older, higher mileage ones.
:surprised: That's not good!! I wonder if that shows the weaknesses in the ECS, or the extensive amount of movement between the transmission mount and the subframe....
Quote from: tony_danza on April 08, 2009, 07:28:29 PM
Quote from: john_o on April 08, 2009, 06:58:37 PM
well i agree it hasnt held up well
BUT
the important 'finger' bits that fill in the voids on the OE mount look to be OK and therefore functioning ok ?
Agreed, but at only 6 months old, that's pretty bad. The disc holds the fingers and as soon as that's gone, the fingers will possibly come out of their void positions?
I'd be interested in seeing some older, higher mileage ones.
I agree its not good,
mine came with a large metal washer that would hold it all in place, I think
i have a neuspeed one!!! erm, i hope they are made differently!
Presumably to check the state of the insert you need to undo the stretch bolt - in which case you'll need a new one.
What comes to mind is that how would you tell if the insert was f*cked?
neuspeed tell you to use the original one, which i did, so dont see the problem with taking it out and putting it back. its only a bolt??
Nope...it's a tension/stretch bolt. The bolt needs to be tightened to a specific torque setting...it's also designed to stretch and lock into place when you tighten it.
Presumably, it also allows a bit more flex than a normal bolt - when the engine moves.
Quote from: WhiteGTI on April 08, 2009, 07:32:40 PM
:surprised: That's not good!! I wonder if that shows the weaknesses in the ECS, or the extensive amount of movement between the transmission mount and the subframe....
Who knows?
Mine's the ECS one, but I think we need to look into this a bit deeper to see what is the cause? Do they all suffer because of the mount, or does one certain brand fail due to poor compound/quality/design?
A stretch bolt surely can't cost that much to find out the state of our mounts?
i find it hard to believe it stretchs and, if it does "lock" only once..
I feel like a mushroom - kept in the dark and fed bullsh*t! That was what I was told...
well i dont know the answer, just find it hard to believe.. so u could be right.. :happy2:
Quote from: SteveS on April 08, 2009, 08:43:49 PM
i find it hard to believe it stretchs and, if it does "lock" only once..
The stretch bolt? It's one use only. Every time you torque up a bolt there's movement between the threads as it locks. Failure to replace could result in shear failure.
well cant explain why neuspeed dont tell you to replace it if HAS to be?
*shrug*
I can't say why Neuspeed don't tell you to replace or include a replacement. ECS, VF, and BSH do.
yeah , Gaz your right the ECS has a large washer to hold it all in place.
The damage looks to be caused by movement which Im guessing we all will get , tony just puts his car through more paces lol
ultimately you need uprated eng mounts and a solid bottom mount.
Stretch bolt should be one time only , but many get away without doing so but its not the way it should be done and carries (some) risk of something going awry.
....
Having seen this thread, mine's gonna get inspected when VWR do my engine mount in a few weeks.
I'll be sure to get my ECS checked at some point soon too!
Update:
Sarah at Awesome has emailed a picture and asked for ECS's opinion - guess we'll wait and see what comes of that, and your inspections?
il have them check mine on saturday :happy2:
Quote from: joesgti on April 09, 2009, 03:01:08 PM
il have them check mine on saturday :happy2:
Hi Joe
Yes , your in to see us , so we can check yours for you
Sarah
coolio, see you on sat :smiley:
Just had my ECS insert installed...boy does it make a difference... :evilgrin:
I fitted a Powerflex one to mine recently. The only worry I have, is that the bolt is not long enough, one you take into account the thickness of the PF bush, and the large washer.
I am looking into the thread and size, with a view to getting a correct length bolt.
:happy2:
I've got a Powerflex one in the garage, t'is much thicker and a very hard compound. The thin fingers are a different shape too.
I've got the VF Engineering one in at the mo that came with the lower mount (which is fecking ace BTW) so I'll see how I get on with that.
....
Methinks I'm gonna ask my friends VWR for their advice and possibly change mine when they do my dogbone engine mount.
No harm in it, I'd assume their mount will have a new bush anyway.
You'll love the effect of the lower mount, much more positive than the insert alone. I'll be getting the VWR fast-road ones in due course, but I know they're busy with the race season starting this weekend and I needed the lower like yesterday!!
As you can see, the joint has a poly bush and is a lot tighter (for want of a better word) so the bush is thinner. The OEM one has a very thick, voided bush, so you can see it'll distort like hell once some power is put through it...Hell, I can bend it a considerable amount by hand, so God knows what an engine will do to it?
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j12/krazyboi98/IMG_2925.jpg?t=1239369946)
(http://vf-engineering.com/unsecured/Black%20Engine%20Mounts/DSC03225%20copy.jpg)
(http://daz.co/media/e123/robertsm2006/P1020594.jpg)
(http://daz.co/media/e123/robertsm2006/P1020595.jpg)
(http://daz.co/media/e123/robertsm2006/P1020597.jpg)
^^^^
Yep, I'm going for VWR Fast Road too. Mark suggests I just start off with the dogbone mount and then later see if I feel I need the others. He says that for road use it's the most important mount of the three.
Someone else would try and sell me all three wouldn't they!
Busy racing season but that's their priority and I can fit around that :happy2:
Quote from: RedRobin on April 10, 2009, 03:56:04 PM
Someone else would try and sell me all three wouldn't they!
Yes, they would - it's nice when you're told what you actually need rather than what a profit margin thinks you need. Same with when someone tells you it'd be a waste of money all together!!
So, that's exactly my plan too Robin, little steps to see how it changes & improves. Starting with this and moving upwards with the VWR ones in time :happy2:
I believe a cheap fix is draining the oil out of the other 2 and re-filling them with resin, could be a positive step for those on a budget and wanting to buy the dogbone only.
Jonnyc had someone doing that for him for the S3 lads on an exchange basis :happy2:
How much is that VF mount Tony?? :smiley:
Quote from: WhiteGTI on April 10, 2009, 06:29:09 PM
How much is that VF mount Tony?? :smiley:
Ã,£169 if you get it from Regal...
^^^ they did it a touch less than that, good old discount! Although it does help if you've spunked a fortune on brakes with them beforehand.
Oh, and I forgot to add, there's no noticable vibration/harshness so far, and poly tends to "bed in" - it also has a habit of being rotten in winter, so I'll reserve full judgement until the cold comes again.... May, no doubt.
Incidentally, the ECS insert did not increase vibration what so ever...
Think it might be a DSG thing Mojo? I only ever noticed it on crawl, where you let off the brake and let it go with no throttle. You'd obviously not get that with a manual.
I would suggest that you may only get a slight increase in vibration when in reverse with the dsg box.
Where do I feel the vibration? In the the throttle pedal?
Quote from: xxx_mojo_xxx on April 10, 2009, 11:42:38 PM
Where do I feel the vibration? In the the throttle pedal?
In the cabin.
Quote from: bacillus on April 11, 2009, 08:03:37 AM
Quote from: xxx_mojo_xxx on April 10, 2009, 11:42:38 PM
Where do I feel the vibration? In the the throttle pedal?
In the cabin.
Yeah, kind of through the seat base, might make something loose rattle too - there's always a trade off, but I don't think it's really all that noticable.
Quote from: tony_danza on April 11, 2009, 09:20:31 AM
Quote from: bacillus on April 11, 2009, 08:03:37 AM
Quote from: xxx_mojo_xxx on April 10, 2009, 11:42:38 PM
Where do I feel the vibration? In the the throttle pedal?
In the cabin.
Yeah, kind of through the seat base, might make something loose rattle too - there's always a trade off, but I don't think it's really all that noticable.
Did you ever get your dodgy one sorted ?
Yes, they've offered a replacement, but as I've 2 in spare, I've asked for something else of similar value instead.... if that's not allowed though, I guess I'll just shift it on.
Quote from: tony_danza on April 13, 2009, 09:09:02 PM
Yes, they've offered a replacement, but as I've 2 in spare, I've asked for something else of similar value instead.... if that's not allowed though, I guess I'll just shift it on.
if you do have to shift it on i will have it :wink:
Hi Guys
This is the reply that we have had from ECS
The base that holds the fingers together is a bit flimsy, but serves very little function, other than to hold everything together. The large washer that covers that piece does a fine job of supporting it when in place. The fingers don't wear like the base of the mount does, after torquing the bolt and washer down against the base, it can get kind of smashed, which will make it more likely to tear upon removal. These mounts are extremely difficult to remove, and will most likely tear when taken out as they need to be pulled, pried and otherwise yanked to get them free. For this reason we consider them a "one-time use" item. Please inform your customers to avoid removing these to inspect them as they are likely to experience the same problem. There is no real reason to remove these unless they are being replaced (which wouldn't need done for quite some time), the rubber around the insert is softer than the insert itself, so the majority of the stress in the mount is going to be absorbed by the rubber. This isn't like a control arm bushing for example, which is attached only to metal components and therefore absorbs the majority of the stress at that connection.
I apologize if this is a bit long-winded, but I wanted to make sure to be thorough in my response.
Please let me know if you have any questions.
Sarah
awesome had a check of mine on saturday and it was fine, ive had 5k miles with it in. :smiley:
^^^^
Great post, Sarah :happy2: - Very informative and helpful :smiley:
Quote from: RedRobin on April 14, 2009, 09:33:39 AM
^^^^
Great post, Sarah :happy2: - Very informative and helpful :smiley:
Hi
Yes that was the information I recieved from ECS , within reason , yes I can understand it
OK when fitted and being used , but only used once.....
As Joe sadi , we checked his for him , and to be fair , with this being something that we have sold many of without issues so far , it kind of rings true to me too
Sarah
Quote from: AwesomeSarah on April 14, 2009, 10:36:10 AM
Quote from: RedRobin on April 14, 2009, 09:33:39 AM
^^^^
Great post, Sarah :happy2: - Very informative and helpful :smiley:
Hi
Yes that was the information I recieved from ECS , within reason , yes I can understand it
OK when fitted and being used , but only used once.....
As Joe sadi , we checked his for him , and to be fair , with this being something that we have sold many of without issues so far , it kind of rings true to me too
Sarah
do yours come with bolts ?
Quote from: 182_blue on April 14, 2009, 10:44:13 AM
Quote from: AwesomeSarah on April 14, 2009, 10:36:10 AM
Quote from: RedRobin on April 14, 2009, 09:33:39 AM
^^^^
Great post, Sarah :happy2: - Very informative and helpful :smiley:
Hi
Yes that was the information I recieved from ECS , within reason , yes I can understand it
OK when fitted and being used , but only used once.....
As Joe sadi , we checked his for him , and to be fair , with this being something that we have sold many of without issues so far , it kind of rings true to me too
Sarah
do yours come with bolts ?
Hi
The ECS ones do yes
Sarah
Fancy doing a GB on them
:happy2:
Quote from: AwesomeSarah on April 14, 2009, 12:11:51 PM
Quote from: 182_blue on April 14, 2009, 10:44:13 AM
Quote from: AwesomeSarah on April 14, 2009, 10:36:10 AM
Quote from: RedRobin on April 14, 2009, 09:33:39 AM
^^^^
Great post, Sarah :happy2: - Very informative and helpful :smiley:
Hi
Yes that was the information I recieved from ECS , within reason , yes I can understand it
OK when fitted and being used , but only used once.....
As Joe sadi , we checked his for him , and to be fair , with this being something that we have sold many of without issues so far , it kind of rings true to me too
Sarah
do yours come with bolts ?
Hi
The ECS ones do yes
Sarah
Quote from: 182_blue on April 14, 2009, 01:09:42 PM
Fancy doing a GB on them
:happy2:
Quote from: AwesomeSarah on April 14, 2009, 12:11:51 PM
Quote from: 182_blue on April 14, 2009, 10:44:13 AM
Quote from: AwesomeSarah on April 14, 2009, 10:36:10 AM
Quote from: RedRobin on April 14, 2009, 09:33:39 AM
^^^^
Great post, Sarah :happy2: - Very informative and helpful :smiley:
Hi
Yes that was the information I recieved from ECS , within reason , yes I can understand it
OK when fitted and being used , but only used once.....
As Joe sadi , we checked his for him , and to be fair , with this being something that we have sold many of without issues so far , it kind of rings true to me too
Sarah
do yours come with bolts ?
Hi
The ECS ones do yes
Sarah
You guys drive a hard bargain.....
We could do 15% off these for say 10 or more
The other problem we have is that it is coming from America...and they can take a while to get in
So if you guys could put up wuith say a 3 week wait , yes we will do 15% off 10+
Sarah
How about free post too :signLOL:, as that's the killer on these small items, or an all in cost of say less than Ã,£30
Quote from: AwesomeSarah on April 14, 2009, 09:17:44 AM
Hi Guys
This is the reply that we have had from ECS
The base that holds the fingers together is a bit flimsy, but serves very little function, other than to hold everything together. The large washer that covers that piece does a fine job of supporting it when in place. The fingers don't wear like the base of the mount does, after torquing the bolt and washer down against the base, it can get kind of smashed, which will make it more likely to tear upon removal. These mounts are extremely difficult to remove, and will most likely tear when taken out as they need to be pulled, pried and otherwise yanked to get them free. For this reason we consider them a "one-time use" item. Please inform your customers to avoid removing these to inspect them as they are likely to experience the same problem. There is no real reason to remove these unless they are being replaced (which wouldn't need done for quite some time), the rubber around the insert is softer than the insert itself, so the majority of the stress in the mount is going to be absorbed by the rubber. This isn't like a control arm bushing for example, which is attached only to metal components and therefore absorbs the majority of the stress at that connection.
I apologize if this is a bit long-winded, but I wanted to make sure to be thorough in my response.
Please let me know if you have any questions.
Sarah
Hi Sarah, I didn't realise you'd replied here, so I wasn't ignoring you!! I haven't checked my personal emails today either, as I know you'd copied me in. So, I'll check shortly and reply to ECS too.
For everyone else's benefit, my thoughts.
I see their point now on the disc not being of any benefit other than to hold the 'fingers' and, I'll call it the 'thumb', together - that's fine. But, as nobody was aware of this, they can understand why concerns were raised when the cover was removed and it was seen to be all smashed and ripped in situ.
Obviously they called me straight away and asked me what I wanted to do about it, and luckily I had the spare, so asked them to carefully remove it to see the extent of the damage. Then see what everyone else thought of it too? Thankfully they'd had the foresight to use proper poly lube, so it popped out fairly easily, as I'm sure you must have used too to enable you to inspect and replace Joes.
Maybe ECS should provide some proper lithium based lube with the kit too? I know they say to use some "grease" in their fitting guide, but the wrong interpretation of this could be leading to their necessity to "pull, pry and yank" them out, destroying them in the process? It'd be a shame for someone to waste their money on a "one-time use" bush if, for example, they decided to upgrade the dogbone mount a little while later down the line.
My advice for people thinking of one - if you're potentially going to have to destroy it, get the cheapest one you can find and see if you get the desired/claimed effect? The only difference is compound and price, and none of them eliminate wheel hop.
Quote from: tony_danza on April 14, 2009, 04:17:02 PM
Quote from: AwesomeSarah on April 14, 2009, 09:17:44 AM
Hi Guys
This is the reply that we have had from ECS
The base that holds the fingers together is a bit flimsy, but serves very little function, other than to hold everything together. The large washer that covers that piece does a fine job of supporting it when in place. The fingers don't wear like the base of the mount does, after torquing the bolt and washer down against the base, it can get kind of smashed, which will make it more likely to tear upon removal. These mounts are extremely difficult to remove, and will most likely tear when taken out as they need to be pulled, pried and otherwise yanked to get them free. For this reason we consider them a "one-time use" item. Please inform your customers to avoid removing these to inspect them as they are likely to experience the same problem. There is no real reason to remove these unless they are being replaced (which wouldn't need done for quite some time), the rubber around the insert is softer than the insert itself, so the majority of the stress in the mount is going to be absorbed by the rubber. This isn't like a control arm bushing for example, which is attached only to metal components and therefore absorbs the majority of the stress at that connection.
I apologize if this is a bit long-winded, but I wanted to make sure to be thorough in my response.
Please let me know if you have any questions.
Sarah
Hi Sarah, I didn't realise you'd replied here, so I wasn't ignoring you!! I haven't checked my personal emails today either, as I know you'd copied me in. So, I'll check shortly and reply to ECS too.
For everyone else's benefit, my thoughts.
I see their point now on the disc not being of any benefit other than to hold the 'fingers' and, I'll call it the 'thumb', together - that's fine. But, as nobody was aware of this, they can understand why concerns were raised when the cover was removed and it was seen to be all smashed and ripped in situ.
Obviously they called me straight away and asked me what I wanted to do about it, and luckily I had the spare, so asked them to carefully remove it to see the extent of the damage. Then see what everyone else thought of it too? Thankfully they'd had the foresight to use proper poly lube, so it popped out fairly easily, as I'm sure you must have used too to enable you to inspect and replace Joes.
Maybe ECS should provide some proper lithium based lube with the kit too? I know they say to use some "grease" in their fitting guide, but the wrong interpretation of this could be leading to their necessity to "pull, pry and yank" them out, destroying them in the process? It'd be a shame for someone to waste their money on a "one-time use" bush if, for example, they decided to upgrade the dogbone mount a little while later down the line.
My advice for people thinking of one - if you're potentially going to have to destroy it, get the cheapest one you can find and see if you get the desired/claimed effect? The only difference is compound and price, and none of them eliminate wheel hop.
Hi
:sad: must admit , I did mean to send it you , but until you replied on here , I completely forgot
But it is sent to you now
So you can see the exact reply that we had from ECS
You have my email address too , if you dont get it , nagg me
Sarah
Quote from: AwesomeSarah on April 14, 2009, 12:11:51 PM
Quote from: 182_blue on April 14, 2009, 10:44:13 AM
Quote from: AwesomeSarah on April 14, 2009, 10:36:10 AM
Quote from: RedRobin on April 14, 2009, 09:33:39 AM
^^^^
Great post, Sarah :happy2: - Very informative and helpful :smiley:
Hi
Yes that was the information I recieved from ECS , within reason , yes I can understand it
OK when fitted and being used , but only used once.....
As Joe sadi , we checked his for him , and to be fair , with this being something that we have sold many of without issues so far , it kind of rings true to me too
Sarah
do yours come with bolts ?
Hi
The ECS ones do yes
Sarah
Sarah,
Can you confirm that the ECS bolt is a longer bolt than the standard? The reason I ask, is you can only physically see the "lack of protrusion" of the bolt with new bush fitted, by using a mirror and light source. If the ECS bolt is the same length then the bolt will only enter the upper bush half for around about 50% of the upper bush thickness, this is due to the added thickness of the New bush, and the large washer. If the upper bush is not secured correctly, then it could develope slight movement, and ultimately the upper bush/bolt could fail.
The simple analogy, is that you are trying to bolt some material together with a bolt that is around 10mm too short. the Standards that I have to work with within the aerospace industry, is that one full thread should be protruding beyond the nut (in this case the upper bush). The bolt requires tightening to 100nm + 90 degrees, which is quite a lot, akin to cylinder head bolt torque.
I suspect that the ECS bolt is suppled to the same length, and supplied on the premis of the original being a stretch bolt. I found that a 80 long M14 x 1.5 bolt was required.
:happy2:
Did the GB for this ever materialise? :drool:
It hasn't T_T, but no reason we can get something started :happy2:
the clonking/lose noise i here when changing gear and taking foot of my pedal sometimes VW have said this product is the cause... i would put my original back but i lost it!
^^^ That sounds like a dealership cop out steve TBH :mad:
I can't see how this would cause those kind of noises :confused:
imo it sounds like its coming for the shift arm, if i change gear, lift the clutch to engadge it sounds loose.. also if im just driving and take my foot off the gas completly it makes the sound..
they said they took it off and it was fine... i need to place my old one back to test, but i have no idea where it is... need to actually look!
I would agree with Steve , Steve :signLOL:
the only scenario I can envisage is that which tony danza has highlighted , in theory you could have stripped some threads in half of the mount, so running the bush you get a clunk, but with it removed the bolt inserts further into 'good' threads and makes it solid.
youre gonna have to try it, or go for a VWR lower mount :happy2:
(I have a spare second hand ECS insert i removed from mine , its yours if you want it :happy2:)
thansk john! ill look for mine, must be somewhere... i hope... and if no luck i will let you know :)
Is the general consensus on these still they are worth the money then?
Best place to get them? Awesome GTI?
Don't forget to follow the ECS youtube install guide :signLOL: :signLOL:
Quote from: shoaybmakda on February 27, 2016, 09:06:08 PM
Is the general consensus on these still they are worth the money then?
Best place to get them? Awesome GTI?
I also would also like to know if they're worth it? Sorry for starting an old thread :rolleye:
@Martk19871 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=13646) I bought one of these and I would say it's quite good for the money.
Have noticed however when accelerating in reverse (DSG) there's a slight grinding noise..not sure what that's about? :confused:
Fitted mine a few months ago. Great cheap easy to fit mod
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