MK5 Golf GTI

whats all the fuss about ?

through no fault of our own after relatively few miles and dependent on conditions the inlet tract on  TFSI engines starts to foul up.
dont think its just a high mileage issue , its happening to us all.  

heres jonnyc S3 8P (still the 2.0 TFSI) intake valve from a stripdown at xx,xxx miles :

jonnyc's S3 stripped



why ?
heres a useful diagram.
The key thing to remember is that the TFSI doesnt have a catch can (but everything else is relevant) , and oil fumes / water vapour and related gumph are ported back into the engine to try and achieve good emissions...
On most cars this is not a problem as fuel washes constantly keeping everything clean.
The bad news is that TFSI is direct fuel injection (injectors spray directly into the combustion chamber), so the only thing passing the intake valves is air (and the oil and water vapour gunk), this is really bad news.


(thanks Robin  )

this happens to both standard or remapped cars, but the increased boost pressure is liable to make the issue worse.


How does this work on the 2.0 TFSI ????
heres some info on another thread , with a >>  diagram of flow <<




possible solutions

The solution is to try and reduce or stop the amount of oil and water vapour fumes making their way back into the intake system...

MOT compliant options

EuroJet PCV valve
uprated check valve & hose in the OEM location
£40
This works by raising the pressure level at which the fumes are recirculated.

Forge oil seperator manifold and catch tank  
has a level viewing function
(not yet available but coming soon)
cost unknown
Works by seperating oil and water vapour and holding them for draining.
         
BSH Stage 1

BSH Stage 2
(note there is an upgrade kit available from stage1 , which I presume adds a modified 'plate' and a catch can)
Works by seperating oil and water vapour and holding them for draining

(there also appears to be a high capacity catch can with dipstick measure (from 7 to 32 floz) kit available , those above use the small catch can)


Non MOT compliant

BSH Race version
Works by seperating oil and water vapour and holding them for draining.
   
or DIY vent to air!

General Info

General BSH PCV page
http://www.bshspeedshop.com/store/home.php?cat=1011  

BSH have 2 different catch can sizes

standard :
volume = xxml
260mm deep (top to bottom inc the top hose connection and bottom drain valve)
95mm wide (at the widest point where the connections are)
50mm wide (across the narrowest point)
no dipstick or viewing method , just open drain to empty

large :
size : TODO
increased volume of xxml
dipstick to measure fluid level
open drain to empty

Quote from: bacillusI think the smaller can is more than adequate for most folk provided you drain it every 1500 miles or so initially.
What's captured in the can really varies from car to car, what type of driving you do and time of year (you collect more during the colder months vs summer). You should get a feel after 2-3 draining on how much "stuff" you're collecting though I do wish the can came with a view window.

If the can fills up then only the excess collection after that point will go back through the return hose to the inlet valve port but hopefully with due diligence it should never get to that point.

many people on this forum entered into the Group Buy organised by Dubtek for the BSH product
BSH PCV Stage 2 Fix Catch Can System Group Buy

   

Seafoaming

This is an agressive detergent that has been discussed as a possible way to remove deposits from the intake system.
It is not proven (scientifically by VW at any rate) , so its done at your own risk!
seafoam discussion on mkv.com
seafoam video

useful links

golfmkv.com : common issues : PCV failure
BSH PCV fix possible ebay / group buy thread...
Actual GB for BSH PCV solutions ....
BSH Catch tank alternative locations by Stokeballon
Oil forum thread showing deposits on a Porsche DI engine
install comments by monkgti
Audi S3 install by WarrenCox
Catch Can Fitting for Octavia vRS by Mater
install comments by RedRobn

Cupra install by DaveyCupra
Topic: Emptied my Catch Can Today……some good pics from KRL
Water Methanol kits discussion : keeps your engine clean.....

^^^^
Excellent as always!

Do we know whether the addition of an aftermarket Catch Can system might eventually result in the gradual deterioration of the gunk previously living on the valves?

And does it matter if Seafoam is used after a Catch Can is installed?

Quote from: RedRobin on August 22, 2009, 11:59:24 AM
^^^^
Excellent as always!

Do we know whether the addition of an aftermarket Catch Can system might eventually result in the gradual deterioration of the gunk previously living on the valves?

It wont Robin, only way to totally shift is cylinder head overhaul and decoke.
Or see if the this "seafoam" does anything if its available in the Uk.

^^^^
Cheers, Phil

Seafoam sounds a bit scary but taking the cylinder head etc off a 2.0T FSI ain't a cheap option AFAIK.

You may be interested in this RR but I have no experience with it.
http://www.wynns.be/news.aspx?l=EN&isectionid=49&iarticleid=282

As for the valves, this  buildup really only affects the inlet valves. Firstly it's not imperative to remove the cylinder head to clean the inlet valves of this build up. Instead the guys in the US have been removing the plastic inlet manifold and manually cleaning the valves as it's more thorough than Seafoaming

Quote from: bacillus on August 24, 2009, 10:28:15 AM
As for the valves, this  buildup really only affects the inlet valves. Firstly it's not imperative to remove the cylinder head to clean the inlet valves of this build up. Instead the guys in the US have been removing the plastic inlet manifold and manually cleaning the valves as it's more thorough than Seafoaming

I'll be doing this on mine when i get round to it now i have fitted the BSH Stage 1 fix. Just need to make sure you rotate the engine during the process to get to each valve. Fair bit of elbow grease involved, but a simple process really.

I have picked up a spare cylinder head from ebay, so might just clean that, get it ported/flowed and fit it as a replacement instead.

Quote from: bacillus on August 24, 2009, 10:28:15 AM

You may be interested in this RR but I have no experience with it.
http://www.wynns.be/news.aspx?l=EN&isectionid=49&iarticleid=282

As for the valves, this  buildup really only affects the inlet valves. Firstly it's not imperative to remove the cylinder head to clean the inlet valves of this build up. Instead the guys in the US have been removing the plastic inlet manifold and manually cleaning the valves as it's more thorough than Seafoaming

....Cheers! You're a star!

I'll be adding the removal of plastic inlet manifold etc to the work list for my next trip to VWR

So much for fuel additives doing a good job if going in to the engine to physically clean the valves is required!

I think I might give that Wynns stuff a go.

Quote from: djhorace on August 24, 2009, 12:05:59 PM
So much for fuel additives doing a good job if going in to the engine to physically clean the valves is required!

Unfortunately this problem is specific to direct injection engines and cannot be blamed on petrol with or without additives.

One way around this problem but not a cure is to use water/meths injection as that will tend to minimise that stuff depositing itself on the valves in the first place. The extra bonus is you can run higher timing and get more power.

sorry for the late reply Robin, I dont propose to be an expert on this , just trying to collate and store the relevant info  

I reckon regular (every 5k miles?) treatment by pouring something into the intake might help prevent deposits.
Catch can from new is the only answer. (or live in an environment where the problem is lessened)
remember also that some 'coking' can be beneficial to smooth inlet tracts etc

djhorace : the citing of the injectors is why additives have no effect.

GB of wynns   ?

Can of wynns for me too please .

If the valves are accessable from the inlet manifolf, thats a relatively easy fix.

I've fired off an email to Wynns to see if they can help us.

  stu  
What about a punt at a product made by Wurth??

Would that be better on newer Technology as it were?

This problem was more of a problem in america isnt it??

They use crap fuel 94 octane?? and 502 grade oil, which our longlife oil is alot better quality, so this issue may or may not be a major problem?